[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by Igzy

I agree 100%. But isn't the whole point of the discussion to see if Lee was wrong about something? And if that's the goal, then nailing down the meaning of these verses is necessary.

The actual goal is not necessarily to see if Lee is wrong, the goal (I think, I hope!) is to ascertain what might be the closest interpretation to the truth that is revealed in the Word, and in doing so I strongly believe we will see that Lee was wrong...very wrong. My intention from the beginning of the thread is that we might use every tool at our disposal - commentaries, word studies, language and historical experts. Of course the main thing would be to use these tools as a help for us to interpret the Word with the Word.

For those of you who do not want to get into "deep theology" then I think it might be a good thing if you sit this one out. Don't get me wrong, EVERYONE is welcome to participate, but I don't think it's fair to anyone concerned to use the "nobody really understands the Trinity" card to sidetrack the conversation.

Originally Posted by Igzy

The one God is three persons. On the one hand you must say the persons are distinct. On the other you must accept that on some level they are the same thing. The Son is not the Spirit, yet on some level he is.

I know what you are trying to say here but I don't think it's good way to say it. The problem is there are some Unitarians and others who would use the very same kind of logic and say "The Son is not God, yet on some level he is". I guess what my real problem would be that I do not think we can discuss the very nature of God or the Trinity in expressions of "levels".

More to say, sorry out of time for now!