Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry
The example I'd like to bring forth is when brother Ron spoke on Mark 11:25 in November 2012.
"Whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you your transgressions."
By itself, the verse is a positive verse. yet in the context of the person speaking it I have had this thought, "does that mean Ron had forgiven John Ingalls for John's perceived wrongdoings by which Ron co-wrote A Response to Recent Accusations or had Ron forgiven Steve Isitt for his perceived wrongdoings through which Ron called Steve "a man of death" and the most evil speaker on the internet?"
If there is forgiveness, you would think there would be some form of communication to those brothers indicating forgiveness. Ron could easily visit John at his home in Anaheim. In his visits to the NW, Ron could easily check with the brothers how to get right with Steve. I don't forsee either happening which is why just like Barrack Obama, all I hear is lip service from the man giving the message. For the record, I would dearly love to be proven wrong and for reconciliation between Ron and John and between Ron and Steve.
By comparison when the Living Waters publication existed in which Bill Mallon, Stephen Kaung, John Ingalls, Max Rapoport, Vern DeFromke, and Paul Kerr were contributors. In which of what happened in Anaheim 1977/78, for Max to work with these brothers, I deduced there must have been forgiveness on Max's behalf.
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Forgiveness is a funny thing. Its primary purpose seems to be freeing the forgiver from the bondage of ill-will, angst, bitterness, etc. But in this life, our forgiveness does note necessarily remove the consequences of the actions of the person forgiven. There is a different requirement upon them. That requirement is much like what the 12-step programs call "making amends." The one who is forgiven can e relived of his debt if he makes amends. And in some cases, making amends can be costly. Some have gone to jail because of it.
I know that, like in the Lord's prayer, we are to forgive the debts or transgressions of others, so it is easy to ask "what is there to have to do on the part of the one who has wronged the other?" The answer is that in my forgiveness, I release the debt. But before God, and sometimes before man (government, etc.) there is still a debt that is not so easily removed.
And in some cases, you must forgive someone, but that does not mean that you are required to allow them the opportunity to transgress on you again. You forgive that weird uncle that molested you. But you don't ever be alone with him again. (not a personal experience, just an example)
I go through all of that to say that it is impossible to absolutely say that someone like Ron or Benson have not forgiven others who are no longer "in fellowship" with them.
But maybe the real question is what is it that Benson or Ron have to forgive? Is it that someone was sitting in the way and they got run over by BP or RK? That is a serious offense to be in the way of a delegated authority. You need to repent for having your foot there for me to step on.
So, in a backhanded kind of way, I grant that they may have actually forgiven people like John and Steve. But that is almost irrelevant. Was there ever anything that John or Steve had to repent of other than not simply saying "Yess massah!!" when told what to do? I'm not demeaning those who were the slaves in early America. I'm insulting the people who would be worse than those who were the slave owners.
The LRC's idea of wrongs is warped. And it comes from their leaders. When it is considered a wrong to pick up some papers from the floor without being specifically told to but not considered a wrong to think that way, then there is a serious problem.
And people who think this way are just warped enough to be incapable of discerning good from evil. From hearing God. Because if they could actually hear God, they would change their ways. But they did not, so their claim of getting a word from God is seriously suspect.
And, as someone has coined the phrase, birds of a feather flock together.