Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
From what you have said here, then just about every church in the N.T. was idolatrous, every congregation in America, every congregation in the world, past and present, etc. Matt's congregation is idolatrous too, since they have elders, which could be construed by some as an "authority based hierarchy."
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You're right Ohio. The group I am in is no exclusion. Very recently they have exercised some abuse against a woman in the congregation that some don't like. After the woman and her husband spent an amount of time trying to address the matter, the door was open for others to speak up. In a respectful manner, I have spent time with one of the elders helping him to realize that they violated a few key things: exercising discipline over a wife without properly involving the husband, and exercising discipline even after clear repentance had been made. This elder has repented to them for his part and has addressed the other elders on this matter. The elders are still struggling with this issue while this woman continues to suffer. This elder who I addressed is unique. He has a willingness to be wrong even as an elder. He only considers himself to be an "older brother" as an elder and believes it is necessary to "get out of God's way" when God is interacting with one of His children. He makes mistakes and doesn't even like being in the position of elder. It took them a long time to convince him to serve as an elder. He was "elected" by the congregation. Everyone had a part in agreeing that he was a good choice for the role.
He recognizes the inherent problem with being in this position of "authority" and how it causes you to be in a bad situation in dealing with other brothers and sisters in Christ.
The situation I am in is unique in that I can speak up to some of the elders without fear of retribution. In many situations, this would not be the case. I think there might be one of the elders that might exercise some retribution, but not with intent. He would do it out of a passive/aggressive flaw in his character.
Soon, I may have to be part of addressing all of the elders as a witness to what has happened. It's not fun, but I have already expressed my willingness to participate as a witness to help establish the matter properly before the Lord. I'll lose some standing in the minds of at least one or two of the elders and will receive accusations in the process, but if the truth of the matter is established then the Enemy will not be able to lay down roots.
In summary, your argument on this point is valid and the group I am in can easily progress into an idolatrous situation if the "authority" that exists is respected even in the face of sin. Sin has no standing in the Lord's mind even if it is done by some "authority". It is sin. A group of believers who allow sin to remain that God brings to the surface which needs to be addressed because of "eldership" or "authority" is one that can easily move into an idolatrous condition. This is how prevalent and pervasive idolatry was in Israel. It was everywhere. This is not my perspective, but God's.
Only one king in all of Israel and Judah ever dealt with
all the idolatry. Only about 5 ever dealt with parts of the idolatry. I don't think idolatry existed in David's time.
Matt
P.S. I remembered the following little paper I previously wrote about "God's Perspective" (
Click Here) and linked to the Berean's. Here it is again. You'll recognize the "extremeness" in it as you look at it!
P.S.S. For those who've gotten on my case for being hard-headed. Trust me, you haven't seen even 20% of it. Ask TJ, she took a 110% and survived, but just bearly. I'm no one's enemy here and no one is mine. I am holding an extreme position on an important issue. You can call me anything and accuse me of anything as a result. I'll live.