Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
I understand you to mean that there were ex-LC'ers present, but that isn't the same. I'm sure those times were rich and sweet indeed. So ... you were disagreeing with something I didn't say. Sorry about the confusion ...
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It's the same Lord. It's His little ones gathered together in His name. It's His Spirit moving and speaking. If it's not the same sweetness, then either
a) something is wrong with the group I was meeting with
b) something is wrong with the group you were meeting with
c) there is something special about the group you were meeting with that makes the presence of the Lord there
more in some way than the presence of the Lord in the gathering I was in.
Do you have additional options? Please present them. I'm interested.
What you have to think about here is the
very real possibility that I have experienced the same thing you have in a different setting (not LC specific).
The meetings I have been to most recently were in LSM driven localities and they were not good. When I went to some other Midwest localities, they were better.
Quote:
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I don't think being in the GLA LC's from the mid-70's makes me at all "credentialed." But your comments about the church in Dallas, as Hope described it, neither makes you adequately "credentialed" to dispute him, don't you think? If you have not lived in Dallas for a period of time in the church while Hope served there, how can you discredit his comments while there?
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I lived for 15 years in Dallas and know a number of young people that grew up there. I have attended meetings in the Church in Dallas after Hope's departure. My parents helped to initiate the Church in Dallas at it's inception before it was "organized" under the LSM/LC.
But no, I'm not specifically "credentialed" to dispute Hope on the topic of Dallas. I am "credentialed" enough to object to his characterization that it was better from the "systematic" point of view.
You need to read back through what he says and realize that the main party he is carving out of the picture is himself. When challenged on issues related to Dallas the response is that he and his family tried to do it differently. I do believe him and there is fruit demonstrated even here on this forum that what he says is true about his own efforts.
These efforts do not counter the environmental effects of the LC environment.
When Hope indicates that he started removing his own children from LSM driven activities this is a clear indication that even he knows the system was messed up and would have an adverse impact on the 2nd generation.
I don't really have to have my own "credentials" in regards to Dallas. I have the witness of others including Hope himself. There are other witnesses that have spoken up on this very forum (at least two: bookworm, Process).
Dallas shouldn't be painted black, but it shouldn't be painted white either. It should be painted with the same color of gray as the rest of the LC with a little whitening effect for the time that Hope was there. What about now? I can tell you that now it is the same color of gray as the rest of the LC. It is an LSM/LC church. It's no exception in 2008. It succumbed to the strong influence of the LC system just like many others have.
I have personal access to quite a few members of the church in Dallas and we could have a very direct conversation with direct witnesses on this subject in a face-to-face mode. I'm willing for truth to be established concretely.
Final Note:
Brother Ohio,
Truly, I'm not offended with you Ohio. I'm just holding your statements up to the light, just as you are doing to some of what I am saying.
Questions:
a) Would you ever go back into the RCC? Why not?
b) Would you ever go back into an LSM/LC driven church? Why not?
Matt