Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
bearbear, I've been realizing lately that perhaps you don't have the same view of us ex-LC members as we do. You attribute it to "free grace" errors which came from "dispensational circles" such as those loosely connected with Darby. As a passive, entitled, 2nd generation, know-it-all, who has recently come of age, I believe your views are quite different from many of us, at least for me.
I jumped into the LC in Cleveland headlong in 1976. After my first meeting, I stayed the whole weekend at the "farm house" on the church property. I soon moved in with Norm M. and his family, attending morning watch every morning and some meeting or service every night. Many of us preached the gospel regularly, if not every day. No one could say that I (or others) enjoyed some "easy-believism," which you are constantly assigning to us.
In those days, we nearly made no decisions on our own. Everything we did was surrounded by much prayer, fasting, and fellowship with the brothers. Twice I totally uprooted my life to join a migration to another city in order to start a new church from scratch. I seriously suffered much from outsiders because of my faith and the narrow way I was pursuing. Most ex-LC-members I know from the "old days" have similar experiences.
For you to come along and project your past life in the LC to ours is neither fair nor justified. I consider myself more like an aging, wounded veteran of foreign wars, wondering if the wars were even worthwhile. I constantly battle a life of discouragement and disappointment, all the while struggling to keep my love and faith fresh and new. This is why you are struggling so hard to convince us of your point of view. You are like a newly saved messianic Jew coming to us every day with the message that circumcision, Sabbath, and kosher are now meaningless. Who knew?
I do think, however, that you have a message for other second generation Christians. And I have taken to heart the message you have brought to the forum. I thank the Lord that you have found your "voice" in Christ. Take heed to your ministry from the Lord. That said, it is not the only message in the Bible. All men need to repent and believe, but Jesus did not use that same message with every person He met on earth. He knew the audience, and matched the message to them. Paul also said he was all things to all men.
And yes, you do add some very nice "color" to the forum.
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I agree, that's a good observation. My experience is also shaped by the fact that I was pretty involved in the LCs from 2005 to 2011 in the west coast. It's probably a wholly different experience than coming to know Jesus in the midwest LCs in the 1970s where the Holy Spirit was moving. From what I read, Witness Lee was less involved in those days and the problem seems to be that he became "more involved" later on.
I like how Leonard Ravenhill put it - You can have all your doctrines right but still miss the presence of God. Whether or not you have the Spirit of God is the most important thing.
I'm sorry I didn't mean to attribute easy-believism to everyone here, but I do believe it's what Witness Lee taught and he should be held responsible for it. And I still have to speak to the destruction I saw it cause especially among church kids (as I realize now). And if you thought I was entitled then, I would like you to introduce to you some of the young people I was serving here in the west coast
There's a reason I believe that many youth are leaving evangelical churches. When you take your salvation for granted, it's easy to fall into many pitfalls like exalting doctrines which don't really matter such as one church in one city, or God's economy or political issues above the love of Jesus. It can also become easy to be tempted by the enemy and leave our first love by returning to loving the world. While it's easy for us to judge the younger generation, we also have to realize this world has become much more scary in its ability to steal their hearts away for things like video games, facebook and other lusts of the flesh that have become more alluring with technological advances.
If you already believe you've obtained eternal life but haven't developed intimacy with Jesus, you really don't stand a chance growing up in this world today.