Quote:
Originally Posted by bearbear
Sorry I wasn't trying to be a jerk- I was trying to get you to think. The scripture I quoted has real practical application. In my Christian worldview you have to be a bit more careful about the people you let in and have influence around the sheep because people's eternities (and not just a thousand years in outer darkness) are potentially at stake if they get stumbled by false teaching or other sorts of deception.
If salvation did not require a persistent faith then there would be no need to worry about fierce wolves in shepherds clothing.
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But Jesus said that no one can snatch us out of the Father's hand. So although false teachers can damage us, assuming we are initially saved they cannot cause us to become lost forever.
This why your interpretation that "no one being able to snatch us out of the Father's hand" still leaves us opportunity to leave the Father's hand on our own doesn't add up. Everything boils down to our choices. So either no one can snatch us means even we cannot snatch ourselves, or it means nothing. Because if everything boils down to our choice then what others can do is irrelevant and Jesus wouldn't have spoken of it the way he did.
One problem is you are placing too much emphasis on eternal salvation. Most of the Bible isn't talking about eternal salvation. It's talking about our condition in this life. Ironically, making everything about eternal salvation makes us just as self-absorbed as making everything about "making the Kingdom." It takes our eyes off the mission. If we know we are saved and secure, then we are free to focus our concern on others. Rather than pretending to be concerned about others so that we look good because we are so concerned about our own destiny.