Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
Yes. And Paul is busy telling this to the people that he has referred to as the church. Not to the unsaved ones who attend the meetings with others who are the church.
So there is a problem in the jump to perdition (and a worse one at that) for those who are not simply toeing the line. For those who do not remain burning in their zeal for the faith.
It may be that we have come to hold a skewed view of faith/belief. One that is too based on mental assent than combined with obedience of the one supposedly believed. But there will always be levels of belief. At least one recognized their own lack of belief, but prayed for it to be filled up.
So I return to my main complaint about these kinds of discussions. When you (anyone) start trotting out a shopping list of verses to make some point that is more difficult than love God and love your neighbor, there is reason for some push-back. While it is clear that loving God requires obedience (otherwise it is just lip service), every effort at trying to define what that means (as if we need to do so to help God find the right (or wrong) ones) is an effort in defining who is in and who is out. Even within the context of the Lord's table, outside of someone who is openly in unacceptable sin, we should be willing to let God decide who is worthy and who is unworthy.
You may not be trying to define a new sect based on certain specific understanding of scripture, you do seem determined that we be more strident in getting these things right according to your understanding than to holding more loosely to whatever it is that we think is the correct understanding. I am not saying to refrain from speaking about or teaching what you think is correct. But inside of this forum, the best things to insist upon are less specificity rather than more. And it is hard to insist on less. You just hold to less and point that direction. Holding to more too often looks like trying to replace Lee and the BWees with your own "this is THE WAY."
|
God loves every sinner and wants us all to come to repentance. In fact he's delaying his coming because he's waiting for the full number of the elect to repent:
2 Peter 3:9
"The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance."
I agree God loves his church, but churches can have their lampstands removed. Jesus says you are the light of the world and to let our light shine. Is a church still a church without a lampstand? If you read the seven letters to the churches in Revelation, Jesus judges each church according to their works and for some churches he threatens to remove their lampstand if they don't repent. He actually uses phrases such as "
I have not found your works complete in the sight of my God." perhaps because works are a measure of if our faith is real. What do you think the consequences are for not repenting? Would the Laodiceans still be saved if they didn't? God in his mercy still loves them so he wants them to, but he can never violate anyone's free will.
15 “
‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19
Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me
You accuse me of being a sect. But there are hundreds of millions of Christians and not just Pentecostals but also those in the Reformed tradition who hold to similar beliefs, including staunch Calvinists such as John Piper. Free grace Christians are actually the small minority!