Local Church Discussions - View Single Post - Is Repentance and Taking the Cross Necessary for Salvation?

bearbear · 12-19-2013, 06:39 AM

In English, when we say we believe something, it usually means that we acknowledge the existence of something we can't see. When the NT uses the word "belief" it means more than that. The word rendered believe in the New Testament is pisteuo in the Greek, it's actually closer to a conviction or trusting in something that can be so intense that you actually live your life to conform to that belief-- or in other words obedience! I contend that both Jesus and the Apostle John used pisteuo in the NT synonymously with obedience. For example:

John 3:36
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.

Jesus did say whoever *believes in me* will never die in John 11:26, but what did Jesus mean when he said pisteou? Throughout the gospels Jesus stresses not just hearing the word but doing it in obedience.

Matthew 7:21
Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

So we see here that merely acknowledging the Lord is not enough, but we also have to do the will of God in obedience. Jesus said let your yes be yes and your no be no, so if you believe in Jesus make sure you really do! Also if anyone calls Jesus Lord but doesn't actually make him Lord, then they're lying to themselves.

Jesus expressed frustration at this many times in the gospels:

Luke 6:46
“Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?"

The Apostle James also warns against hearing God's word but not doing it. He says people who do so deceive themselves! The whole book of James is a huge warning to those who lie to themselves about believing in God when they show that they don't by the fruit they bear.

James 1:22
"But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves."

Now only God knows someones heart and only he knows where Witness Lee is right now.

If we see Witness Lee in heaven then praise God because that means he truly repented before he passed. I'm personally not so sure about this judging by the fruit he bore towards the end of his ministry, but it's possible his repentance at the end was real- what gives me hesitation is in his letter of repentance, he didn't take full responsibility for the mistakes but always used the word "we" instead of "I". Also in the book of James it says that not many should teach because they'll receive a greater judgment-- think of the people who spiraled into depression, abandoned the faith or committed suicide ending up in hell/outer darkness because of the errors and unscriptural practices in Witness Lee's ministry-- will God really let this go unpunished without repentance? The degree of repentance always has to match the degree of sin (think David and Bathsheba and all that David had to go through). Still who am I to judge someone who already passed, each of us will have to face God in judgment. My aim is to convey the need for repentance.

There's a good reason why Jesus said the road to life is narrow and few find it-- it's not easy to take the cross, it's not easy to repent because it takes humility and letting go of everything you once loved. But it's all within our control because we all have full control of our hearts. I go over this in some detail here:

Http://eternityinourheart.com/heart

Regarding our sin-stained flesh, I agree that the bible doesn't say that we should be without sin. Sinless perfection is a heresy per 1 John 1:8. Every time we stumble in sin, God will still forgive us when we confess it (1 John 1:9) given that we repent.

However we should never let sin control the way we live-- and any Christian who falls into this trap without repentance is in trouble. Paul said in Romans 6:12 "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions."

If anyone believes God's grace is enough to forgive an unrepentant "Christian" who still lives a life controlled by sin, then you may need to meditate on these verses again and ask God for deliverance.

Hebrews 10:26-27
For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries.

Galatians 5:19-21
Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:3-5
But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

1 John 3:8
Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.

Hebrews 12:14
Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

My whole life I lived in addiction and enslavement to sin (pornography and video game addiction). I thought every male looked at porn and could never help it. I thought that I could practice sin and God would forgive me every time I confessed. It was only when God showed me his true grace that I fully repented and asked for the Holy Spirit to come into my life and then I was free. I was deceiving myself the whole time thinking I believed and was saved even though I read the bible, prayed and even served when I was in LRC. My fear is that many in the LRC and ex-members may be in the same situation, believing that they are saved when they're not. There's just too many temptations in this world such that if a church doesn't stress repentance, its members are in big trouble! I think this verse sums it up well:

Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death.

This way is the broad way that leads to destruction Jesus describes in Matthew 7.

But now I really do feel like a Christian! When I look at my former self, I understand what "old man" means not just doctrinally but in reality because I can barely recognize who I once was.

Jesus didn't just die to forgive our sins but to free us from being enslaved to it by the power of his blood.

What frightens me the most is that one day many could be facing the door to eternity in heaven thinking they can enter because they believed but never took care of their addictions and Jesus will have to give them the bad news.

Matthes 7:22-23
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

12-19-2013, 06:39 AM	#9
bearbear Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 765	Re: Is Repentance and Taking the Cross Necessary for Salvation? In English, when we say we believe something, it usually means that we acknowledge the existence of something we can't see. When the NT uses the word "belief" it means more than that. The word rendered believe in the New Testament is pisteuo in the Greek, it's actually closer to a conviction or trusting in something that can be so intense that you actually live your life to conform to that belief-- or in other words obedience! I contend that both Jesus and the Apostle John used pisteuo in the NT synonymously with obedience. For example: John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him. Jesus did say whoever believes in me will never die in John 11:26, but what did Jesus mean when he said pisteou? Throughout the gospels Jesus stresses not just hearing the word but doing it in obedience. Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. So we see here that merely acknowledging the Lord is not enough, but we also have to do the will of God in obedience. Jesus said let your yes be yes and your no be no, so if you believe in Jesus make sure you really do! Also if anyone calls Jesus Lord but doesn't actually make him Lord, then they're lying to themselves. Jesus expressed frustration at this many times in the gospels: Luke 6:46 “Why do you call me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do what I tell you?" The Apostle James also warns against hearing God's word but not doing it. He says people who do so deceive themselves! The whole book of James is a huge warning to those who lie to themselves about believing in God when they show that they don't by the fruit they bear. James 1:22 "But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves." Now only God knows someones heart and only he knows where Witness Lee is right now. If we see Witness Lee in heaven then praise God because that means he truly repented before he passed. I'm personally not so sure about this judging by the fruit he bore towards the end of his ministry, but it's possible his repentance at the end was real- what gives me hesitation is in his letter of repentance, he didn't take full responsibility for the mistakes but always used the word "we" instead of "I". Also in the book of James it says that not many should teach because they'll receive a greater judgment-- think of the people who spiraled into depression, abandoned the faith or committed suicide ending up in hell/outer darkness because of the errors and unscriptural practices in Witness Lee's ministry-- will God really let this go unpunished without repentance? The degree of repentance always has to match the degree of sin (think David and Bathsheba and all that David had to go through). Still who am I to judge someone who already passed, each of us will have to face God in judgment. My aim is to convey the need for repentance. There's a good reason why Jesus said the road to life is narrow and few find it-- it's not easy to take the cross, it's not easy to repent because it takes humility and letting go of everything you once loved. But it's all within our control because we all have full control of our hearts. I go over this in some detail here: Http://eternityinourheart.com/heart Regarding our sin-stained flesh, I agree that the bible doesn't say that we should be without sin. Sinless perfection is a heresy per 1 John 1:8. Every time we stumble in sin, God will still forgive us when we confess it (1 John 1:9) given that we repent. However we should never let sin control the way we live-- and any Christian who falls into this trap without repentance is in trouble. Paul said in Romans 6:12 "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions." If anyone believes God's grace is enough to forgive an unrepentant "Christian" who still lives a life controlled by sin, then you may need to meditate on these verses again and ask God for deliverance. Hebrews 10:26-27 For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. Galatians 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Ephesians 5:3-5 But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints. Let there be no filthiness nor foolish talk nor crude joking, which are out of place, but instead let there be thanksgiving. For you may be sure of this, that everyone who is sexually immoral or impure, or who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has no inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 John 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. Hebrews 12:14 Strive for peace with everyone, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord. My whole life I lived in addiction and enslavement to sin (pornography and video game addiction). I thought every male looked at porn and could never help it. I thought that I could practice sin and God would forgive me every time I confessed. It was only when God showed me his true grace that I fully repented and asked for the Holy Spirit to come into my life and then I was free. I was deceiving myself the whole time thinking I believed and was saved even though I read the bible, prayed and even served when I was in LRC. My fear is that many in the LRC and ex-members may be in the same situation, believing that they are saved when they're not. There's just too many temptations in this world such that if a church doesn't stress repentance, its members are in big trouble! I think this verse sums it up well: Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, but its end is the way to death. This way is the broad way that leads to destruction Jesus describes in Matthew 7. But now I really do feel like a Christian! When I look at my former self, I understand what "old man" means not just doctrinally but in reality because I can barely recognize who I once was. Jesus didn't just die to forgive our sins but to free us from being enslaved to it by the power of his blood. What frightens me the most is that one day many could be facing the door to eternity in heaven thinking they can enter because they believed but never took care of their addictions and Jesus will have to give them the bad news. Matthes 7:22-23 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’