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Nell · 08-23-2008, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Nell

I think the best is to be convinced by prayer, by the Word of God and the enlightening of the Holy Spirit. My hope is that people reading this thread would take all these things to the Lord and be convinced in their own minds.
Igzy: Yes, but they won't know what to be convinced of if "all these things" are not put into words that make sense to people.

So those who choose to continue the discussion should be free to continue. The solution presented here has been to stop the discussion for whatever reason. I think we're trying to communicate in a way that makes sense...we just aren't there yet.

Quote:
We can have an intellectual discussion and ultimately, there is little to win or lose either way. However, these topics, on this forum, to this group of people who may have been the victims of spiritual abuse and may have not been able to acknowledge the possibility, I think is another matter altogether.
Igzy: I'm not sure what you mean by this statement.

I'll make a comparison to this forum and the BARM. The BARM is an apologetics forum and I don't think they ever understood our desire to help people, and that this is the most sincere form of apologetics (my opinion). They seemed to want intellectual doctrinal debate without the people factor to "muddy" the water. I don't know this to be true, but it seems to me to be true, and that's the reason I post here instead. To "win" a debate in that arena is simply a "hello win column." To really win would be for someone who's hurting to be able to find the Lord again.

Quote:
I'm not out here on this forum because I want to convince anyone of anything, though to the reader it may not seem that way. Sometimes I wonder myself why I do this...spend so much time here ... . I was not convinced of any of these truths because someone beat me over the head with them and I finally got the point and now I agree.
Igzy: Eventually a belief has to put into words, otherwise how do you even know what you believe, and how can you communicate it?

Igzy: It troubles me that people are suspicious of intellect, because intellect is a gift from God. He gave us brains so we would use them. Certainly it can be misused. But so can religious fervor, subjective "leadings," and even faith and prayer. Why intellect is always the red-headed step-child of the bunch, I'm not sure. But I think the bias is an error. And we all know who the source of those are.

I'm not suspicious of "intellect" per se. I'm suspicious of "knowledge" of spiritual matters which is attributed to "culture", or "rugged individualism" or even "Texas individualism" or some other "influence" that in effect, denies the power of the Holy Spirit and it's working in our lives. The tendency has been to discredit some spiritual realities because these matters are looked down upon by society and dismissed as little more than "nonsense". For example, the very existance of this little icon: discredits or minimizes the spiritual reality of the spirit world. That's the "intellect" I'm talking about.

Quote:
There have been few topics on this or the other forum that have met with this much resistance. I have to ask myself "why?" I believe I know. I can't convince anyone of anything, but I can present what I've seen and encourage others to take it to the Lord to see what He would say.

Igzy: Which "topic" are you talking about precisely? I'm not being coy, but this thread has been all over the place and I'd like to know specifically what you are talking about.

Idolatry as practiced by the leaders, resulting in the spiritual abuse of the flock.

Nell

08-23-2008, 10:59 AM	#480
Nell Admin/Moderator Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 2,102	Originally Posted by Nell I think the best is to be convinced by prayer, by the Word of God and the enlightening of the Holy Spirit. My hope is that people reading this thread would take all these things to the Lord and be convinced in their own minds. Igzy: Yes, but they won't know what to be convinced of if "all these things" are not put into words that make sense to people. So those who choose to continue the discussion should be free to continue. The solution presented here has been to stop the discussion for whatever reason. I think we're trying to communicate in a way that makes sense...we just aren't there yet. Quote: We can have an intellectual discussion and ultimately, there is little to win or lose either way. However, these topics, on this forum, to this group of people who may have been the victims of spiritual abuse and may have not been able to acknowledge the possibility, I think is another matter altogether. Igzy: I'm not sure what you mean by this statement. I'll make a comparison to this forum and the BARM. The BARM is an apologetics forum and I don't think they ever understood our desire to help people, and that this is the most sincere form of apologetics (my opinion). They seemed to want intellectual doctrinal debate without the people factor to "muddy" the water. I don't know this to be true, but it seems to me to be true, and that's the reason I post here instead. To "win" a debate in that arena is simply a "hello win column." To really win would be for someone who's hurting to be able to find the Lord again. Quote: I'm not out here on this forum because I want to convince anyone of anything, though to the reader it may not seem that way. Sometimes I wonder myself why I do this...spend so much time here ... . I was not convinced of any of these truths because someone beat me over the head with them and I finally got the point and now I agree. Igzy: Eventually a belief has to put into words, otherwise how do you even know what you believe, and how can you communicate it? Igzy: It troubles me that people are suspicious of intellect, because intellect is a gift from God. He gave us brains so we would use them. Certainly it can be misused. But so can religious fervor, subjective "leadings," and even faith and prayer. Why intellect is always the red-headed step-child of the bunch, I'm not sure. But I think the bias is an error. And we all know who the source of those are. I'm not suspicious of "intellect" per se. I'm suspicious of "knowledge" of spiritual matters which is attributed to "culture", or "rugged individualism" or even "Texas individualism" or some other "influence" that in effect, denies the power of the Holy Spirit and it's working in our lives. The tendency has been to discredit some spiritual realities because these matters are looked down upon by society and dismissed as little more than "nonsense". For example, the very existance of this little icon: discredits or minimizes the spiritual reality of the spirit world. That's the "intellect" I'm talking about. Quote: There have been few topics on this or the other forum that have met with this much resistance. I have to ask myself "why?" I believe I know. I can't convince anyone of anything, but I can present what I've seen and encourage others to take it to the Lord to see what He would say. Igzy: Which "topic" are you talking about precisely? I'm not being coy, but this thread has been all over the place and I'd like to know specifically what you are talking about. Idolatry as practiced by the leaders, resulting in the spiritual abuse of the flock. Nell Last edited by Nell; 08-23-2008 at 11:08 AM.