[Nell]

Originally Posted by Igzy

Nell,

I've already conceded that Satan is the ultimate source of all error. And by error I don't just mean mistake, I mean sin. The definition of sin is "missing the mark," which is another way of saying "error."

I appreciate your point, surely exposing Satan is important. But exposing Satan takes more than saying that someone's been influenced by Satan. I do think people need to realize that there is a conscious, active person who is trying to deceive and hurt them. That is Satan. I never denied that or mocked it.

Igzy,

Sorry...no you didn't deny or mock. I was referring to Ohio's mocking post regarding the Christmas tree.

(That said, just because someone uses sarcasm to blunt over-the-top or misapplied Satanology, that doesn't mean Satan is somewhere snickering about it and exchanging high-fives with his minions, otherwise the path to deliverance is just to talk about Satan more and more.)

It also doesn't mean that Satan and his minions aren't somewhere doing high-fives either. Does it?

While exposing Satan is important, when it comes to discussing disagreements on how Christian and church lives should be lived, it seems to me that people need to be convinced of their error, or sin, before they can be convinced they are influenced by Satan. Telling someone over and over they are under Satan's manipulation might just be a desperation move brought on by the inability to formulate a solid argument as to why their beliefs or behaviors are wrong.

I think the best is to be convinced by prayer, by the Word of God and the enlightening of the Holy Spirit. My hope is that people reading this thread would take all these things to the Lord and be convinced in their own minds.

To me that is always the challenge on a forum such as this: putting ideas into words that convince, rather than trying to spook someone. This is why the "God is going to judge you someday for your error" arguments usually ring hollow. The obvious reply is "No, he's going to judge you." And where does that leave the discussion?

... A declaration is not a proof. ...

Once you've convinced someone they are in error, or sin, it naturally follows that they've been under Satan's influence. This seems to me a more efficient path than trying to scare someone with Satan talk.

We can have an intellectual discussion and ultimately, there is little to win or lose either way. However, these topics, on this forum, to this group of people who may have been the victims of spiritual abuse and may have not been able to acknowledge the possibility, I think is another matter altogether.

I'm not out here on this forum because I want to convince anyone of anything, though to the reader it may not seem that way. Sometimes I wonder myself why I do this...spend so much time here ... . I was not convinced of any of these truths because someone beat me over the head with them and I finally got the point and now I agree.

When I first started trying to figure this stuff out, I was a wreck. I was hurt and I cried a lot. All these matters, I went to the Lord and asked Him. I really wanted to know what was so wrong with me and the way I had spent the last years of my life being so totally disceived that I no longer felt like I had a walk with Him but a walk with a bunch of controlling men who never had my best interest at heart, but their own. I believe this was an answer to my prayers, because it made sense to me.

There have been few topics on this or the other forum that have met with this much resistance. I have to ask myself "why?" I believe I know. I can't convince anyone of anything, but I can present what I've seen and encourage others to take it to the Lord to see what He would say.

Otherwise, as TJ said, we're free to discuss and be convinced in our own minds.

Nell