Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
Rather than collect a lot of things together that we think we know the underlying heart about and put a label on it — idolatry — why don’t we just look at each clear error for what it is. It is unnecessary to search the heart about why Benson took a trip to Houston to slander Jane. That he did says enough. He did the deed. It speaks volumes without the label of idolatry attached to its motives. It even says something about whether he should be in leadership.
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Here is my response to both OBW and SpeakersCorner.
OBW, you're right we need to look at
objective evidence. That's exactly what I offered up. I offered up a letter where
almost all of the LC leadership swore their allegiance to the
indispensable nature of Witness Lee's leadership.
SC, it's fact and yes it is clear and objective evidence of idolatry. If you don't think you fell into it, then good for you. If it upsets you, then show me my offense against you. How have I sinned against you by telling you that you were party to idolatry? Do I bear false witness? No. I do not. I am speaking the truth. I'm not judging the hearts here. I'm presenting objective facts and examples. Sorry, you can't hide from them.
If you don't think that letter was serious, then that is your estimation of it. My estimation before the Lord is that the letter was (and still is) serious. It was a pledge to a man other than Jesus Christ. It was an oath to a system.
The Lord asks for our personal obedience to
His commands and our sole attention. Almost all the eldership of the LC was compromised on this point.
Would you like to pick the letter apart and prove me wrong? How about the historical context of it? I know a lot about what went into the formulation of the letter. I know who probably offered it up. I know how important it was from their point of view that a signature sheet was made and everyone was asked to sign and noticed if they didn't do it.
Now back to yesterday. You offered up Jeremiah 2:1-2 as evidence of how God appreciated the devotion of the children of Israel in the wilderness. I agree. He did appreciate their devotion.
Jer 2:2 Go, and cry in the ears of Jerusalem, saying, Thus saith Jehovah, I remember for thee the kindness of thy youth, the love of thine espousals; how thou wentest after me in the wilderness, in a land that was not sown.
At the same time, He did not ignore their idolatry:
Act 7:42-43 But God turned, and gave them up to serve the host of heaven; as it is written in the book of the prophets, Did ye offer unto me slain beasts and sacrifices Forty years in the wilderness, O house of Israel? (43) And ye took up the tabernacle of Moloch, And the star of the god Rephan, The figures which ye made to worship them: And I will carry you away beyond Babylon.
He did not appreciate their idolatry.
Yes, idolatry is pervasive. It infects every aspect of the lives of almost all of the children of Israel in the OT. Steering clear of idolatry was the
exception and
not the rule. According to the Word of God, we each should acknowledge this reality in a present context.
It's not me saying that you should acknowledge it. It's Paul.
1Co 10:1-14 For I would not, brethren, have you ignorant, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; (2) and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; (3) and did all eat the same spiritual food; (4) and did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of a spiritual rock that followed them: and the rock was Christ. (5) Howbeit with most of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness. (6) Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted. (7)
Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play. (8) Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. (9) Neither let us make trial of the Lord, as some of them made trial, and perished by the serpents. (10) Neither murmur ye, as some of them murmured, and perished by the destroyer. (11)
Now these things happened unto them by way of example; and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come. (12) Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. (13) There hath no temptation taken you but such as man can bear: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation make also the way of escape, that ye may be able to endure it. (14)
Therefore, my beloved, flee from idolatry.
And John.
1Jo 5:18-21 We know that whosoever is begotten of God sinneth not; but he that was begotten of God keepeth himself, and the evil one toucheth him not. (19) We know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in the evil one. (20) And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life. (21) My little children, guard yourselves from idols.
So, if you are going to put up an
defense against what is being said, try a better one.
Are there no demons?
Is it impossible for you to have been party to some idolatry?
If the letter wasn't a clear act of an idolatrous condition, then what exactly do you say that it was?
I do understand the various attempts to provide some 'balance'. I don't have a problem with any of them. It's good for the reader to consider all the inputs.
Matt
P.S. Idolatry came up because of the impacts of the LC on the family. Idolatry has just the same kinds of impact on the family as what has been described on this thread.