Quote:
Originally Posted by Indiana
Will you come back to this, Igzy, and answer clearly before those members you are concerned about; and before forum members; and before God and all others looking in if you believe these brothers’ took an appropriate stand in their city. This is important for you as an administrator of this forum to state if you concede that this was the right stand. I mean without evasiveness, Igzy; and, if you believe they took the correct stand that God could bless, should a different stand be taken today? Was the principle right? without concerns and references for the problematic side of taking such a stand.
|
In other words, UntoHim, I am asking, Was the principle right? Can you answer this?
There is no need to put before the onlookers, in referring to me:
“So what you're asking is that we all pretend that the last 30 or 40 years of Local Church history NEVER HAPPENED? Sorry, but many of us can't do this my brother. I can't do this for the sake of my conscience. I can't do this for the sake of the truth. I can't do this for the sake of the younger ones and for any who are considering joining the Local Church movement.”
And, what does this mean, UntoHim? And, what are you saying about me, publicly? You don’t hear what I am actually saying, and so invent things. You have had on the forum, intermittently, a loud, offensive, and careless mouth, as has Igzy. You don’t know how much harm the two of you have done over the years to current and former members and seekers of truth with your abusive, sarcastic speech and disregard for the truths they uphold. And, disregard of the positive aspects of the Local Churches and their history that you overturn on your forum, with glee. You are the ones confusing people, because you take their appreciation of the positive things and destroy them. You cannot even handle the ground of oneness question intelligently. I am handling it with sensitivity to the principle of the teaching. You brothers just come in and blow it up, and don’t care what the onlookers think who are hurt by your speech against this fellowship and other truths they adhere to.
UntoHim, there are many attributions made on this forum applied to me that are not fitting that I hope to get to and address. You and others misrepresent me habitually, and now AW is following suit. And, I want to get to him also.
I don't know how closely you read what I write; you certainly don't refer to points well that I have made, or defend your position well. Maybe due to time restraints you don’t take much time.
In your responses to me on the forum you are superficial and many times erroneous. Did you read thoughtfully this latest post of mine? Or just wing thru it and throw something up there to automatically refute me publicly, skating on the surface as you go through your 3 minute post.
I don't think it is possible that you read this or any post I have made on this thread with care. Am I right? I spent 3 hours on this post. Did you spend even 3 minutes to read it? I also spent 8 hours on another.
And, here is what you said in response to that post #19. At least you got to the two essential questions I had wanted answered. But again, your post was half-hearted and superficial, to say the least. There is no depth to your speaking, no breadth, no interest – you just talk and put up something to dismiss me.
________________________________________
Originally Posted by Indiana
I wonder, Igzy, why you did not refer to my points in post #19, which were in response to the pertinent forum questions:
1) Why was there a blessing of the Spirit in the early days of the church life?
UNTOHIM answered:
"There is always a measure of blessings when "two or three are gathered in my name". But God's blessing does not necessarily signify God's approval. God's approval can only come with the knowledge of and continuation in the Truth. The original disciples and apostles experienced a great deal of blessing while the Lord Jesus was among them, but the Lord did NOT pray to the Father to "bless" them - he prayed that they would know the TRUTH, and be guided into all TRUTH. The blessing they received did not help them when the trials came...When the Shepard was persecuted all the blessed sheep scattered. It was only when the Spirit of Truth came to dwell in them did they go and boldly proclaim the Gospel.
"So what is the true measure of God's blessing among a group of Christians? Is it numbers? Well if so the Local Church of Witness Lee has fallen woefully short. There are a number single location "megachurches" that have weekly attendance with larger numbers than the Local Church has in all it's USA locations put together. Even in the "heyday" of Elden Hall, the Local Church was not particularly blessed with impressive numbers.
"Is the true measure how long, loud or raucous the meetings are? Is it the enthusiasm, dedication or devoutness of the members? The Local Church was hardly alone in these things.
Quote of my 2nd question in UNTOHIM's post:
2)
"What effect did Witness Lee have on that blessing in the local churches in those days. References by me in #19 to the ground of oneness were concerning the early church life in America; not current day Local Church life on a path of deviation from the earlier days."
UNTOHIM answered,
“Not much to say here except to challenge you to consider this - What effect did Witness Lee have on the Local Church movement for the 25 or so years after Elden Hall? These 25 years make up about 70% of Lee's time here in America. Sorry but "selective memory" does not work here in the information age. This is the real world, not a Local Church conference meeting where we all just shout out AMEN! to everything.”
I wasn’t asking about “25 or so years after Elden Hall.” I have done that already more than anyone. Why are you talking about it?
References by me in #19 to the ground of oneness were concerning the early church life in America; not current day Local Church life on a path of deviation from the earlier days.