Good evening gentlemen!
I don't know if I should weigh in on this one or not, as the lines seem to have already been drawn and the arguments put forth... but I had meant to offer a view on this earlier, so....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
Some of the things Lee taught I still believe, some I don't. And some things that he said which I still believe I think he put in a way that made some very profound things very accessible. Here's one example: The Church is God's dwelling place, the place he wants to live. Most Christians know that the Church is "the house of God." But they still consider heaven as God's prime dwelling place. Lee opened my eyes to see that God's desire is to make the hearts of people his primary dwelling place. Emanuel doesn't just mean God is with us--it means God lives with us.
Now, you might argue that I could have gotten that somewhere else. But the fact is, I didn't. And I really haven't heard it emphasized anywhere else, anyway. |
Igzy, I really think that if this is a "primary truth" you embrace of Lee's you have to consider where this "primary truth" lead Lee - and us, through his further exposition.
If you suppose that
God's dwelling place is the Church, then it logically follows that:
1) The Church, as an organization or collective or
organism must be a tanglible thing - something that you can see, and touch and feel (maybe
spiritually) because God dwells in it.
2) That if God dwells in "The Church", His house shouldn't be divided - it ought to be a glorious and
united Church under His headship. Such a church ought to sound in "
one accord"
3) That if this
true "Church" is united and in one accord, then divisions
must be wrong and an indication of a sickness.... "churches" (small "c") which claim to be of a division (denomination) must be wrong and not a part of the "The Church" (big "C").
4) Such "churches" must therefore be "
Christless", or "
demonic", or "
Satanic".
...Now, you can argue that points 1 through 4 don't neccessarily follow from Lee's opening statement - but they certainly did for Lee, and you know that's what he taught... and you've abandoned that line of thinking, haven't you?
Hermeneutics (biblical interpretation) can be likened to scientific method. The scientific method requires scientists to start with a hypothesis (possible interpretation), and then to work out an experiment to perform to test the likelihood of that hypothesis being true. Numerous experiments must be conducted in order for a hypothesis to graduate to a theory (interpretation considered proven enough to be
likely - or
probable), and
many more must be conducted for that theory to be accepted as a scientific Law (unequivocally true statement about the nature of reality). If even ONE of the experiments conducted during the entire process of the scientific method returns a negative result (disproving the hypothesis or the theory), then the hypothesis (or theory)
must be abandoned.
Anyway, I have to agree with Mike on this one. Scripture seems to point to the fact that God is about relationships -
individual relationships. Enoch walked with God, and then was not. Abraham talked with God, and was counted His friend. Jacob wrestled with God. Moses saw God face to face. The prophets spoke with Him, the disciples followed Him, and Saul met Him on the road to Damascus, receiving a commission to preach to the Gentiles. Is the church being built by God? Absolutely, He says He's building it - but it's a church we can't see and touch and it isn't unified. It never was. Each of the 12 disciples were called to a different ministry, in a different place (church history outlines the areas minstered to by each, and the ends they met in their different callings - and the ways each were used uniquely and individually by He who called them). Each "church" in Scripture is different, and each has a different "messenger" or angel and each receives a different commendation or admonition. Each church has overcomers, to whom Christ wrote
as individuals. What does this mean?
It means the conclusions Lee drew from his initial hypothesis, that "The Church (big "C") is God's
primary dwelling place" were proven wrong. The "Church" isn't even a word in the Bible. The word we translate as "Church" is the Koine Greek "
Ekklesia", or the Old Testament Hebrew "
kahal". These words mean "assembly of called-out ones" - "ones" being a key-word. The emphasis is on the individuals*, and the English word "Church" never even appeared once in the original English translations of the Bible (which used the word "assembly" -
A group of individual people gathered together in one place for a common purpose - for the ekklesia. Understanding this, and seeing that the facts disprove Lee's hypothesis (hermeneutic) shouldn't Lee's hermeneutic be abandoned? If it isn't, then what does that leave you with?
*
See Christ's Ekklesia and "The Church" compared.