Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
Do you read the posts? The details were provided by Jesus and Paul.
1. Jesus told the thief "this day you will be with Me in paradise". That is one detail.
2. Paul said that when he died "he would be with Christ". That is another detail.
3. Paul said that "the dead in Christ rise first". That is a third detail.
Of course there are more. Jesus talked about Lazarus being in the bosom of Abraham, and a gulf that separates the two parts of Hades. Peter talks about different realms in Hades as well, mentioning Tartarus where the fallen angels are held. Then of course you can talk about the False Prophet and Anti Christ who both "went to their place until the appointed time". There is also the very thorny question of Elijah and Moses. Where did they go. If John the Baptist was Elijah who is to come, what does that mean?
|
THe answer to your opening question is "yes."
What you have demonstrated is that there are several references that somewhat fit together, and somewhat confuse one another. At least as long as the thought is that these are all very literal, precise-meaning phrases intending to provide a "modern," systematic, and cohesive theology. And if that is the goal, then there is room for complaint about inconsistencies. But I believe that you will see that each of these are specific references that are not intended so much to tell us about what happens after death as to reflect upon the results of the actions and decisions of this life.
We had some disagreement some months back about the cohesiveness of a series of parables that Jesus spoke. There was the field with the weeds sown by the enemy, followed by several others — some relating to growing and harvesting, some used leaven, and at least one referred to fishing. I don't remember if you had a particular thought on this, but my impression from these was that even where the same thing came up a second time, it was not necessarily for the purpose of creating a larger theology surrounding that thing, but of using some aspect of it to make a point.
Another is where Jesus speaks at least three parables in a row concerning sheep, shepherds, sheep pens, the gate, etc. In each of those, he made a specific point. Some think that the use of the common collective in the metaphorical sense was to build a complete metaphor concerning Christ. But if that is true, there is a problem. In one, Christ is the shepherd. But in another it is clear that men are shepherds. So it is not as simple as some larger whole.
And for those who just got lost in all of that, the thing that I see in these various tidbits about what happens after death are these:
- They are not placed together.
- The most important part of them (in most cases) is not what they say about what happens after death.
Since they have purpose other than the "after-death," and they are not even in the general proximity of each other, I do not find a compelling reason to begin to build a cohesive theology concerning what scripture does not say based on the nearly nothing that it does say.