[aron]

Originally Posted by Ohio

And I would just add that it's not just "all about the system," but it's all about the ones in charge of the system. It's all about how is your relationship with them. The system, whether referred to as "the church, or the body, or God's move, or His purpose, or the Recovery, or God's New Testament Economy," or any of a whole host of "smokescreens" to hide their real intentions, simply builds edifices to the one on top.I witnessed both WL and TC doing this. They demanded the utmost loyalty and zealotry to their system which was actually to themselves.

But when the principals have left the scene, the "system" remains. I believe that behind people like WL & TC, who seem to be manipulating the system, variously called "The church, the body, God's move, His purpose, the ministry, the recovery, the local churches", are spiritual forces which need to be unmasked, identified. Jesus asked, "Who are you?", and they didn't want to say. "Oh, there's a bunch of us in here."

These forces don't like to come to the light. They would love for us to vilify the vessel whom they have captured for their ends, and ignore them. Then they can continue their work. But Paul said, "We do not fight against flesh and blood, but against spiritual forces in the heavenlies" which are opposed to God's rule.

Both used the churches and the saints to build their empires. the highest priority was not your relationship with [the Lord]... The biggest threat to their empires was not sin or worldliness, but a certain required independence by church leaders in following their Lord directly. Thus the LC's became "of Lee" or "of Titus."

Again, note that once the principals have left the scene, the empire remains. Seemingly in other hands, but still under the control of arguably the same spiritual forces. So they seemed to be "of Lee" or "of Titus", but really Lee and Titus were "of" something else, which needs to be unmasked.

The saints' relationships with their elders, or their church, or the one next to them, were also bonds which needed to be broken in order to maintain the ultimate relationship of all, codenamed "one with the ministry." One would never know this by their teachings, however. Kind of like my maxim about politicians: pay little attention to what they say, rather to what they do.

Every election cycle, politicians suddenly become concerned for "America". The rest of the time, however, they are primarily concerned with themselves. So every two or four years they roll up their shirtsleeves and stand in front of a giant American Flag, point toward the crowd and earnestly read from a teleprompter, and it means nothing except that they want to attract voters. But behind this election cycle is the continued acquisition of power and money, which goes on unabated. The actors pace the stage, one by one, and then leave, but the stage, i.e. the system, remains. The system seems to be manipulated by people, because it does indeed reward them (temporarily) with wealth and power and influence. But really the people don't manipulate the system, but system manipulates the people. It sucks them dry and discards them.

The only one who made it through alive was/is Jesus. The rest: "The work, the ministry, the move of God, the churches, the body" are, as Ohio said, a smokescreen for this system of human manipulation and control. And all the subsidiaries, variously named "Christians on Campus", Bibles for America", "Affirmation and Critique", "Full-Time Training", "Defense and Confirmation Project", and so on, are further smokescreens to disguise the system.

To me it is simple: God wants "the freedom of the sons of God" to be restored (Rom. 8:21; see also Matt. 17:26; Gal. 5:1). Satan doesn't want that, because it spells his end. So he disguises himself as an angel of light, and distracts the elect with systems of control, and reward/punishment. As I have said earlier, I understand "this is the way the world works". But I don't think this is the way the kingdom of God works. Instead of a "top-down" system, Jesus declared a "bottom-up" system.