[OBW]

A total of 6 posts out of 252 (including this one) and you want it moved somewhere else? This one sprung off of one that sprung off of one that . . . . well, you get the picture. How far back was the last post actually talking about "submission to leaders"? I count about 18 (including this one).

And the actual discussion has gotten convoluted enough that the last time someone said something about sticking to the topic, when I went back to figure that out, I realized that it was not exactly what we were talking about anyway. Before the sidebars. Related. Has a link. But not really on topic.

I don't know if John just gave up on it a long time ago, or just wanted to start a discussion that he considered worth discussing. Either way, I'm not sure that we are really that close to the original. It was much more pointed at an analysis of leadership, vetting ministries, being in submission (or not being in submission, or no requirement to be in submission) and so forth. But so much since then has been somewhat about the way small independent groups do church when compared to large groups and which is preferable. The first post provided at least a couple of verses in support of what I would characterize as the core of the question. But it did not consider other verses that provided some answers.

But I'm not sure that we ever actually went there. It seems that we veered away from that long ago. Maybe Peter is accurately keeping John's question going. But I don't know. It actually seems like a different subject.

Not complaining about the subject. Just noting that I'm not sure that we have really been "on topic" for a long time. Assuming someone doesn't post before I do, this is #252.

Now, having said all of that, starting a different thread to discuss metaphors might be worthwhile. But sometimes the result is that it is over already and that one becomes either ignored, or turned into yet another off-topic discussion.

I honestly believe that unless there is a serious discussion actually on the stated topic going forward, it is probably better to just let the various side discussions continue. If they start to become heavily followed, consider breaking them into a new thread for their own sake. But referring to it as "abstract" sort of insinuates that you just want to be rid of it (not saying it is so, just noting the insinuation). I don't think this one is continuing, and the one that it is interspersed with is not really on topic either.

Yeah, John's question is not completely missing from some of the continuing discussion. But based on my reread of it just now, we haven't really talked about that in a long time.