Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
MacDuff's views here are lopsided and, in my mind, a fairy tale view, one that I have heard before. Perhaps he disagrees. That's fine with me. Let's discuss it. Perhaps others disagree. Same as above. One thing is certain, there is no perfect church, and that was certainly true of the numerous churches recorded in the New Testament. They had lots of problems, and needed the leadership of wise and mature men of God.
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MacDuff's conclusions are totally theoretical. Yes, they make sense if you accept his premises (which I don't) and if you are only interested in a theoretical ideal (which I'm not).
I'm interested in how the Church actually can operate--manifestly from scripture and observation of what works. MacDuff's ideal has never existed in history, yet he claims it is the only way. This implies there has never ever been legitimate spiritual work done for God, which we know from observation to be false. So MacDuff's idea crumbles under reductio ad absurdum--it results in absurd conclusions.
The reason I told him to drop the tack he was taking was because he simply keeps making the same claim over and over--that if you don't believe the Spirit can and will completely control a group to the point there is no need for human organization then you are denying his power.
That's absurd. It's like saying if I don't believe the Spirit can and will make an ice cream cone appear in my hand then I'm denying his power. Just because the Spirit can do something doesn't imply that's what he wants to do or is going to do. It's just an absurd argument. He's wasting our time making it over and over.