Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDuff
In my view, there is a distinction between the ekklesia portrayed in the Bible and the Churches of Christianity. They are two entirely different things.
In the gatherings of the ekklesia, no human ruling authority would be necessary. Only the supernatural ruling authority of the living Jesus Christ as Lord through the indwelling Spirit within the community, within each individual who is in Christ.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
In my view, MacDuff has a fairy tale view of the New Testament. I'm not saying that I don't like this point of view since I also have been burnt by bad leaders who placed personal gains above the needs of the flock, but I see the same issues in the Bible. MacDuff's view of the early church is tainted by the desire to have something "perfect" as a starting point. There was nothing perfect in the book of Acts! Unfortunately for both of us, we were jaded by Lee's Recovery paradigm which begins the age with a "perfect" church and ends the age with a "perfected recovered" church.
I personally believe that MacDuff's assessment of the Christian life and the church in general would be vastly improved by regularly reading the New Testament. Read it for the facts. Read it afresh like the first time you ever saw the book. Try to read yourself into every scripture. Don't read as an observer but as a player. Picture all the scenarios that Paul, Peter, and John addressed in their epistles.
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It seems my prior post, quoted above, has upset certain folks. I never intended this, but I still provided my observations to
MacDuff, and encouraged him to read the New Testament again. What could be wrong with that suggestion?
MacDuff said that, "
there is a distinction between the ekklesia portrayed in the Bible and the Churches of Christianity. They are two entirely different things." I disagree with this. I have heard this numerous times before. I say they are the same, because we have the same Lord, same life, same Father, same Spirit, etc. All the shortcomings, pitfalls, and failures I have witnessed in contemporary Christianity all existed in the record of the New Testament. The same miraculous and supernatural events of the early church have also happened in our era.
Macduff further adds, "
In the gatherings of the ekklesia, no human ruling authority would be necessary. Only the supernatural ruling authority of the living Jesus Christ as Lord through the indwelling Spirit within the community, within each individual who is in Christ." I disagree with this too. Yes, we "have an anointing, and have no need for any man to teach us," and, yes, God has given the church teachers and leaders. The Bible says to walk by the Spirit, and it also says to submit to one another and to leaders. The Bible records a balanced perspective, pleasing to God, honoring His Son, and necessary for fallen man.
MacDuff's views here are lopsided and, in my mind, a fairy tale view, one that I have heard before. Perhaps he disagrees. That's fine with me. Let's discuss it. Perhaps others disagree. Same as above. One thing is certain, there is no perfect church, and that was certainly true of the numerous churches recorded in the New Testament. They had lots of problems, and needed the leadership of wise and mature men of God.