[Cal]

Originally Posted by Peter Debelak

P.S. This is not a defense of Dale Jackson. But the point is, there has been NO DISCUSSION OF FACTS. What I see is one man's account and other's agreeing simply because similar events may have happened elsewhere. That's shady, in my opinion.

I'll start with this statement of yours first. What do you mean no discussion of facts? Awareness recounted an incident. How much detail would you like there to be to consider it "facts." I have no reason to disbelieve him that the people he names were involved. Though his misrecollection of cities is bothersome.

This is a very personal thread that is connected to very specific persons and very specific events.

I can personally attest that an attack on a SPECIFIC man to make an otherwise true GENERAL point about the LC is a very specious approach.

I didn't attack anyone. I said that I had no reason to disbelieve awareness' assertion that the incident he described took place.

Make the broad points about the LC abuses on another thread.

The reason I made that "broad point" is that Plenteous tried to defend his father by making the "broad point" that he was a good man. He seemed to either be totally unaware of or conveniently ignoring the fact that abusive disciplinary practices were a way of life in the LC.

So far, on this thread, I see awareness being very accusatory and defamatory toward Dale Jackson. There has not been a vetting of the truth of his assertions. The only thing we have is Dale's brother claiming he is wrong and the thread-author (MicahG) agreeing with him. That puts awareness in the hot seat, not Dale Jackson.

Vetting will not happen. It's he said/she said.

My point was that Plenteous showed no sympathy for awareness at all, as if it would be impossible for his father to take part in such things. Given what we know about what's expected of LC leaders, that's a facetious position. Given the history of the LC, it should not be surprising to anyone that any elder took part in such things. From what I saw most if not all of them thought that kind of thing was service to the Lord.

This is not to say that all were guilty of this. It's just that I think it's a bit naive to act shocked that any of them might do it.