Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
I understand your thoughts on the subject. And they are not without merit. When you say . . .. . . I believe that the answer is both "yes" and "no." And that makes it about as clear as mud. I'm convinced that this is one of those areas in which we can take certain snippets like fortune cookies, and while ignoring everything else that may weigh in on the subject and boldly declare "Yes!" And we can take a different selection of fortune-cookie snippets, ignore everything else and boldly declare "No!"
The answer is not in position and declarations. It is not in authority (although there may be some authority granted). It is in submission, responsibility, gifts (and their proper exercise), and recognition of those gifts that we are willing to submit ourselves. We don't submit because someone says we should submit to them. We submit because we recognize their part — their gifting — in the grand scheme of the church.
We don't submit because someone declares themself to be an elder, pastor, MOTA, or whatever. We submit because we have a sense of connectedness. A recognition of someone who actually is an elder. One who is faithfully shepherding the flock.
And while I do not think you will find something saying that you simply submit to them as leaders, you will recognize them for what they are and will respect their word and leading. And even when you do not completely agree, you will find yourself compelled from within to be in submission. Not in a way that is contrary to what you know to be right. But in a way that is part of "be in submission to one another."
Does this make everyone with outward status as a "leader" worthy of submission to? Absolutely not.
And that is why I answered as I did before. I sense this thread as seeking a definitive answer to stand against the teaching of the LRC that makes leaders into a ranking of deputy authorities with which you cannot disagree and cannot refrain from submitting to. That is the thing that needs to be taken down. Not the possibility that we may actually be asked by scripture to submit to everyone in the church, including those we would recognize as leaders.
If you want a simple "yes" or "no" to the question posed by the thread title, then the answer is not simply either. And it is not simply neither.
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Yes, there are verses that make it very clear we should submit one to another, so I don't think that is what the question on the thread is. It is also obvious that we must submit to those who have "rule" over us, so if a church leader was responsible for church assets like the building then of course you must submit to any rules set out for the use of the building. Likewise it is obvious that we must submit to the Holy Spirit, and to the New Testament.
So the way I read this question and thread is "are church leaders given special authority over the members that non leaders are not given?" If that is the question I would say it is clearly no. If that is not the question then what is the question?