Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
'And then [Jesus] goes on: "And if you join up with [the church], you're going to discover something extraordinary. Not unity of theology or ethics, not a like-minded politics or life-style, and certainly not agreement about what songs to sing in worship! But you will find grace and mercy in time of need. Always from me, and more and more from these people. No particular church of mine can last unless my forgiveness permeates it; it is out of business within a generation otherwise; I insist on that. But a lot of my churches are still learning how to forgive, so they don't do it immediately. Not all at once. There are still many of my followers in these churches who are bitter and angry—but I'm working with them. Why don't you work with them as well, and learn something of my grace and mercy?"
'When put in this light, it becomes apparent that if we give up on the church, we are giving up on humanity. Because the church is the promise and presence of a redeemed humanity in Christ.
'And there is no other way to learn love except by plunging in with people like this.'
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Amen. Truly, I am not arguing anything that disagrees with this. I'm arguing the difference between genuingly seeking this, versus being content with a "proxy" for this.
I see groups as an
natural outflow of genuine seeking and spirituality. You see groups as an end to themselves, which you then "try to make sure" has spirituality in it. Very similar appearing outcomes. My position entails yours (see my post below on "barameters" for a healthy individual walk), yours doesn't necessarily entail mine.