[Cal]

Igzy, I actually think their requirement of "more committment" in order to be part of "the work" was entirely appropriate. Those brothers felt personally commissioned by the Lord to pursue that work. If some other schmoe like me wanted to join their personal comission it is appropriate that it is on their terms and that I submit to their terms.

The problem was that this "work" was mixed in with what I thought was just "assembly." A coupla brothers of varying experience and study, getting together - assembling - to study God's word. It turned out, unless you were committed to "the work" - the "agenda" - of the group, there wasn't much mutually "just" to fellowship, study and mutually encourage one another. You were "second class."

This is where not caring about what others think comes in. If you don't feel to get involved with ministries, then that's your business. But you have to get past worrying what others think about it. And the others, of course, aren't entitled to judge you.

Obviously, maturity is needed. This was big problem with the LC. We had a bunch of zealous young people, probably most of which were eager to please others, be seen as spiritual and who were somewhat insecure. That just plays right into the hands of groupism.

But again, that doesn't mean groups are bad or are less important than "individual walks," it just means we need to learn the skills to be in groups.

Ironically, being able to negotiate being a group member requires some self-confidence--a healthy sense of one's individual worth. Religious groups tend to undermine this. We tell people to not trust themselves, to not be proud, to not be opinionated, to be "nothing." What you can end up with is people who are ripe for manipulation.

So some self-confidence and sense of self-worth before the Lord is needed. You cannot buck the group when you feel it's wrong if you don't have a strong sense of your individual purpose and worth in the Lord. Again this takes maturity.

Radical groups like the LC do not encourage this type of sense of self. "Self" to them is a bad word. You have to get past that kind of unhealthy teaching. Once you see that you yourself have God-given value and purpose in yourself, ironically only then can you really be of value to others, because you can become vulnerable for their sake, because at your core you are quite confident.

I'll be honest that I don't entirely understand where you are coming from either.

Statement's like "that's how groups naturally work" and others, supports the suspicion that contemporary Christianity could just as well be any other organization, just with a different "mission statement."

There is talk of God and the Spirit, but I really don't know how you think He and faith in Him plays into a group dynamic.

Peter, obviously I'm talking about these things in a Christian context and so it's assumed the Spirit and prayer are completely involved. (Give me some credit here, bro.) But even with those things present, everything isn't cut-and-dried. We still need to deal with disagreement and other matters of the group dynamic even with the Spirit and prayer involved.

So I do bristle a bit at arguments like "that's just what group's do." Or "that's just human nature." Exactly my point: there's nothing Christian about it, except that its cloaked in "God's will"-type language, with everyone patting each other on the back.

I disagree. Group behavior, just like any God-created behavior, can be distorted because of sin. But that doesn't mean that group dynamics are in principle un-Christian.

God created us with the view that we would form groups. Surely he knew we would. We are social beings. We need to learn to cooperate with others while maintaining the integrity our own sense of self-value and purpose.

Dealing with others is the major challenge and major reward of life. God asks us to be fully faithful to him and yet express that in service to others. That requires faith, wisdom, skill, grace, aplomb, humor, confidence, humility, strength, love...

In short, it's what we were made to do.

Not Christian? I believe it's what's going on at the core of the Trinity! So it's challenging for you? Jump in the game, bro. This is what it's all about.