[aron]

Originally Posted by Peter Debelak

But if someone is arguing that the "practical expression" of believers coming together should perhaps be left to the Holy Spirit, then "practical questions" might not have a place or at least as much force. In such a situation, "practical questions" about "Well, what do we do then? Who resolves disputes?" leans toward needing human mores and norms, rather than faith. Every religion has their version. "Leaders" who have an "office" and are thus to be respected regardless of spirituality, are a good practical solution to this human social problem.

I understand that this is a bold way to argue what "church" should look like - since the argument is "I don't know - and maybe God wants it that way, which requires us to depend on Him rather than human social structures" - and is not practical in any sort of way. But what part of God's multifarious wisdom and varied grace is "practical" in the way we mean that term in our limited minds?

I admit to being biased (probably only God is "fair and balanced" -- see Jesus' retort in Matthew 19: "Only God is good"). So I will lay my bias out front. I think that we should organize ourselves only as much as is absolutely necessary, and leave the practical stuff to God.

So while I admit to leaning toward the arguments of MacDuff and Peter D, I will offer four sections, chosen with the aforementioned bias, and perhaps only helpful to me. But chosen and presented nonetheless, with an idea to "amen" the last sentence of Peter D, above.

First, the part where Jesus tells them to go into the city, and they will see a man walking with a water jug; they are to follow him, and they will find a room prepared (Matt 26, Mark 14). Now, what organizational leadership is going to arrange that, I ask? Where did the man come from? The room; how was it arranged?

Second, where Jesus says to go into Bethany and get the donkey's colt (Matt 21, Luke 18, Mark 11). He said, "If anyone asks you, ‘Why are you doing this?’ say, ‘The Lord needs it and will send it back here shortly.’” (Mk 11.3) Same as above. We can only trust God to give us such "crazy" (i.e. non-rational) commands. Any human leadership here will really be crazy.

Third, Jesus' command to gain funds for tax-paying purposes by throwing an empty hook into the ocean, and you'll get a fish with a coin in its mouth (Matt 17). Nutty, no? Where did the coin come from? How was the fish directed? But if Jesus says so, then you do it. Only the Spirit today can give such "nutty" commands. No human agent is capable. The humans who think they are such expressions of the flow of the Spirit are variously named Jim Jones, David Koresh, Sun Myung Moon...

No, it must be the Holy Spirit. This will often be revealed through the more mature ones (note how 1 John chapter 2 addresses maturity in life versus organizational position), but it cannot be limited to them, unless we want to limit the Holy Spirit's move.

Fourth, on the restrictive side, (Acts 1:4)... On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: "Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about.

Do not do anything until you get "evidence" of the Holy Spirit. Only then will God reveal His move to you. I argue that the preaching on Pentecost was led by the Holy Spirit, not by Peter or any human leadership. Organizational structure will only fence in the Spirit. Any human leadership would have gotten antsy before the ten days was up (notice how the command was open-ended) and tried to "move" before the Spirit arrived. But Jesus was clear: "do not".

Leaders, i.e. vectors of the Holy Spirit, will surely emerge. But we should let this occur as the Lord sees fit. The only thing that matters is the move of the Spirit. Creating vested leadership positions will lead only to vested interests, contrary to the Spirit. Eventually our vested interests will lead us to serve the creation, not the Creator. Because, as I mentioned at the start, we are biased.