[aron]

Originally Posted by MacDuff

Each ekklesia is called out of a city to take care of the affairs of God in the city in which it exists. Each ekklesia is a local manifestation that is intended to express the universal Body of Christ (Eph 1) and the residence or temple of God (Eph 2) and the common life of the believers in Christ as connected to the supernatural in the heavens known to all principalities and powers (Eph 3).

Anyway, that’s the way I see it.

I like this statement. My only modification is the word "city". I don't see an ekklesia as being limited to an urban conflux. It can be in the wilderness, as described by Stephen in Acts 7:38. It can be in a variety of forms. Typically, it was associated with a city. But that was, I believe, in the formative years when there were not many Christians yet and there was typically (but not exclusively) only "one church in one city". Today in Moscow, 2,000 years later, due to growth in numbers there may a number of churches (the LCs play with words to get around this, and call them "meeting halls" instead of churches. But each one, still, is an "ekklesia"). I see plural ekklesia as multiplication rather than division. Or, conversely, in Bumper's Corner, Iowa, which is merely a crossroads in a vast agricultural expanse, one may gather in a church which is as genuine as the big city. Jesus said "Gather in My name". He didn't specify geographical constraints.

Anyway, that is the way I see it.

Originally Posted by MacDuff

My original purpose for coming on the internet was two-fold. To find other Christians of like mind (I was yet Christian then), and to increase my faith. I have instead discovered that I think like no Christian denomination, and my faith in Christianity has become nil.

I also. My faith, or "emotional investment", in Christianity (i.e. organized religion) has basically shrunk to nothing. Fortunately, I still love God (or try to, anyway), and love my neighbor as myself (or try to). I think differently than others but respect that others have had different experiences than I, and I believe that their experiences of God's love are just as real to them as mine are to me. And since my ideas about the nature of the universe are constantly changing, I don't see the need to distinguish myself, based on the uniqueness of my ideas. Ideas change over time.

Originally Posted by MacDuff

In my experience, forums tend to be more debate than discussion. In a discussion there is a civil sharing of ideas, where all parties can grow in their own understanding of reality through that which has been mutually shared. In a debate especially between Christians, there is the pontification of ideas, that too often leads to one party telling another party that their pontifications prove they are not Christian or not as Christian as they are.

I try to be merciful to others, and God will be merciful to me. Psalm 18:25 says, "with the merciful you show Yourself merciful"... Jesus amplified this theme in His teachings. I consider it to be a cornerstone of the faith. What you do unto others is what you will in return receive from God.

From those who already have it all figured out I can learn almost nothing, except "don't be like that." I am, rather, interested in mutual exploration. The scene in Luke 24 is great: two guys are walking along, "talking about everything that has happened" (v.14) and suddenly they both get taken to a new place. "Were not our hearts burning when He opened to us the scriptures?" (v.32). Both of them got to see something new. Occasionally on the forum I get that sense. It is worth filtering through the "posing" (mine included) to find a mutual celebration of discovery.

Originally Posted by MacDuff

I never left Jesus Christ. I’m just not so certain about the reality in Christ as I once was. Not because of persuasive arguments by non-Christians against the faith, but because of persuasive arguments by Christians for the faith that devalues that which they are arguing for. Which is why I say that today I have more hope than faith.

As I said, your hope may be more grounded, in both in scripture and actual human experience, than mine is. I am comfortable with my theology, but how "real" are my experiences? Usually I try to "let go" and "start again", and find that the good stuff ("Love your neighbor, etc") comes along, and the rest can just lay there forgotten. Paul said, "What once was valuable to me I have let go on account of the excellency of the knowledge of Jesus Christ as Lord." In other words: Don't get stuck; let go and keep moving.

Originally Posted by MacDuff

I would agree if I thought the Recovery was an ultra-orthodox group. Unfortunately, it is not when compared with mainline churches such as Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Catholicism, Lutheranism, Calvinistic Churches, Protestant Evangelical Churches, etc., etc., etc. All of which have the same exclusiveness in their doctrinal attitude that you call ultra-orthodox..

By ultra-orthodox I meant ultra-rigid, or very inflexible, as to what constitutes truth. I find you can't really have a discussion with such people. They just want you to see things their way. It is hard to have a conversation with someone who already has all the answers.

Originally Posted by MacDuff

I hate to break it to you, but based on the fact that neither of us has started our own denomination, apparently you and I aren’t very good writers, nor do we have much charisma to speak of.

In spite of my repeated attempts, I have not been able to convert anyone to the church of aron