View Single Post
Old 08-13-2008, 08:17 AM   #1
aron
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,632
Default

FPO, yes the AA "recovery" plan is useful. The 12 steps were based on the Oxford Group in England, which was a bunch of sinners trying to figure out how to come back to God according to Biblical principles. The drunkards seized upon the "way" because they were literally perishing. It was not self-improvement, it was survival. If "sinners" realized how grave the situation was they would likewise seize the principles (faith, repentance, honesty, forgiveness, restitution, etc) and allow themselves to be likewise saved from perishing.

Gubei, I like your ideas on a "person" posessing "agency", or will, or the capacity to choose. I have long felt that only God has the capacity to act. Satan merely reacts. When we are in Spirit, we act. When we are being religious, with our scriptural rule books, we merely react. Only God is a "person". All other entities are either agents of God or agents of Satan, who by definition are "not". Question: do we act by "instinct", merely reacting, or by God's grace do we turn and open to the only One who "is"?

Paul Miletus, I liked your inclusion of the Brass Serpent story. It certainly is salient to the discussion. The brass serpent has the form, but not the substance. Jesus had human form, but not sinful nature. So, is it possible for us, by God's grace, to choose the divine nature, not the fallen human nature, as the "substance" of our "person"? I think/hope so. Without that hope, what hope do I have? Thanks for the posted material; I liked it.

KSA, you are correct. Influence is not a matter. Substance is a matter. Influence is the clue that you are in the presence of substance (gravity = mass, etc). And the sphere, realm, domain of influence is what I like to call a "kingdom". In physics it is called a "field". It is a useful analogy.
aron is offline   Reply With Quote