[aron]

Originally Posted by MacDuff

And believers would still be under the system, hated by former Recovery people for some reason, of one ekklesia one city. Where the name of the ekklesia corresponds to the name of the city, instead of to every other denotation that can be conceived by man.

When Paul wrote to greet the ekklesia that met in the Jones' house, he didn't say greet the ekklesia in Venice, or Naples. He said to greet the ekklesia meeting in Jones' house; the name of that ekklesia was "the ekklesia that meets in Jones' house". There can be multiple houses, and/or gathering places, and therefore multiple ekklesia in any given urban area.

Originally Posted by MacDuff

...Christians are more apt to believe in their interpretations of the Bible than the Bible itself..

Which is why we have discussions... as the name of this forum (hopefully) conveys: "Local Church Discussions". Occasionally I learn something from having discussions... at least I learn that my opinion isn't considered as equivalent to "the truth" by all and sundry.

Originally Posted by MacDuff

And some, like the Catholics and Mormons, aren’t satisfied to have a Bible to tell them, but go about creating more writings that tell them more or explain more. Not that Protestants don’t with all their various ideas of what the Bible “is really saying”. Why Witness Lee is blamed for taking advantage of an already existing situation, is beyond my ability to understand...

Not sure what you think the Catholics created... the apocrypha? That the Mormons went beyond and "created more writings" most of us Christians would agree with. My beef with Lee is not that he had an opinion, or an idea of what the Bible was saying, but rather that he thought his opinion corresponded in a 1/1 match with reality. Thus no one else's opinion was needed, or allowed. In retrospect, the man was borderline delusional. At the very least, grandiose.

Originally Posted by MacDuff

The initial experience, plus what I saw in Christianity that amounted to the same thing, each denomination wearing slightly different colored pants, led me to eventually become a non-Christian. But from what I have been reading on both forums, that would be something that you former Recovery people wouldn’t be interested in. Only those who have managed to keep their Christianity, such as it is, need apply...

Bolded point one: Both myself and a few other writers here also went "non-Christian" as their post-LC religion of choice. After my sojourn in the void (agnosticism/science/philosopy) I eventually went back to Jesus Christ because 1) I decided I preferred a universe in which God existed, and 2) because Jesus still seemed to me to be the preferred way to approach God.

My preferences are why I do what I do. It's why I usually pick butterscotch pudding over vanilla. I choose something just because I like it better. My choices are neither innately morally superior to nor more rational than anyone else's. But it is my life and those are my choices. Now I try to live with them (not always easy).

Bolded point two: I have been greatly helped by non-Christian posters here, on the other forum, and elsewhere. Their opinions are just as valid as mine. I learn a lot from people who see differently; maybe more than from my Christian peers (and my fellow Christians are fairly diverse).

Originally Posted by MacDuff

when push comes to shove, one finds that Christians are just as earthly and human as is the rest of humanity. Even to having the need for human rulers, as if their God is dead...

I agree with this statement. Politics, to me, are superfluous to the Christian journey. I obey the laws, pay taxes, and vote. But doing so is not an intrinsically spiritual issue with me, any more than cleaning the windshield of my car.

Originally Posted by MacDuff

If what the Bible itself says is true, and the God it describes actually exists, as he is described, and if he has truly provided what man needs in his Son Jesus Christ, then I know that the God it describes will take me for what I am and not send me to hell for what Christianity has made me. ... And I live in hope that the God of the Bible does indeed exist. Not the interpreted Gods of Christianity, and there is more than one of those Gods. And mostly misunderstood....

Dear Macduff, I posit that you have something valuable to add to the conversation. Your hope may be as real as mine, or even more real (i.e. more grounded in actual truth as presented by the Bible). One of the great problems with ultra-orthodox groups like Lee's is that other voices are not welcomed; it causes too much confusion, they say. When really all they want to hear is their own voice, echoed back to them, which they think equals "the voice of God." I myself appreciate a little variety, and welcome your voice (not that you were anxiously waiting my approval). Proverbs says 3 times that "In many counselors there is safety." You can be someone else's voice of reason, just as they can be to you. Conversations are valuable this way: they are mutual explorations.

Originally Posted by MacDuff

I observe that many on the two forums have been on them a long time. Sorry you can’t get a life. There really is more to life than complaining about the foibles of this one Christian denomination. I find it intriguing that someone can claim to leave a denomination, and then spend their life scrutinizing it. ....

I enjoy writing. And I like writing here on this forum because it is free. No money is exchanged. I think money distorts the flow of ideas. When we merchandise our ministry, eventually the market, the quest for lucre, supervenes and supercedes our quest for truth. Like the prophet said a long time ago, "come without money and without price"...

Offhand, I can't remember if any reader has had their mind changed by my writings. I get agreement from the ones who were predisposed to agree. It would be nice if someone wrote that when they read my post, something like scales fell from their eyes and suddenly they could see. But that's not likely to happen. So I write because I like to, and if it helps someone else that's a nice bonus.

Writing helps me clarify my thinking, and seeing others' opinions also helps me to think (I think). It's good therapy for a lot of us who were inured in a system where only one person is allowed to think (the Maximum Leader). Now we get challenged to think and to allow others to think as well. Being involved in a forum can be a healing balm in that regard.

The reason some of us are here for an extended period is that learning to think, and simultaneously becoming aware that others also think, and think differently from us, can be a long and slow process. You know, if you walk a mile into the woods you have to walk a mile to get back out!

Originally Posted by MacDuff

No doubt you’ll want to destroy this post, seeing as it isn’t much in accordance to what this forum really wants to hear.

Destroy!! Destroy!! MacDuff isn't writing according to the sacred codes of Groupthink!!

(A little humor)