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Old 08-29-2012, 04:13 AM   #17
aron
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Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Natal Transvaal
Posts: 5,631
Default Re: Should Members Obey or Submit to Church Leaders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Debelak View Post
This notion of having spiritual authority residing in an identifiable person, indeed in an office, is logically contrary to the New Testament.

If someone can tell me how it comports with the New Covenant, I'm all ears.

I am not saying I don't see what is written in Scripture. I do. But I'm willing to say I don't know what it means, in light of the multitude of other verses and concepts that cut against a plain reading of the text.

This patent acceptance of a plain reading of "obey," while later adding caveats that comport with having Christ, the LORD, in our spirit, just don't jive.
The poor readers of this forum have seen me repeat, ad nauseum, Jesus' dictum that who wants to be great should be the least. But in light of our disposition to forget it, and try to be "first", combined with the world's unceasing push in this direction, it seems good to me to repeat this over and over. Otherwise I end up buying into schemes of external "authority" which are temporal, both in religious and secular spheres.

In light of Jesus' clear teaching and example, I read "Be subject to one another" as that each of us should strive to be the least, and give deference and respect to all that are around him or her. But we are to imitate those who are imitating Christ, no? We are to be subject to those who themselves are subject to the rest?

So someone who like Diotrophes tries to be "first" and who thinks that this idea of subjecting oneself refers to others but not them, should get the same disdain in the assembly that Herod got from Jesus. "You are a pretender. You have no power. Your desire to tell everyone else what to do reveals the weakness, the neediness, the lack of satisfaction from the Father's house. You are the proverbial 'waterless cloud' and I am not going to accompany you on your journey. Have a nice day."

When Peter tried to tell Jesus what to do, he got corrected immediately, and firmly. Should we not also do this with those who attempt to "lord it over us" (cf 1 Peter 5)? Or do we rather bear gladly with those who abuse us? I don't think Paul was congratulating those in Corinth when he wrote "In fact, you even put up with anyone who enslaves you or exploits you or takes advantage of you or pushes himself forward or slaps you in the face. (2 Cor 11:20)". I don't think that is "being subject" in a proper way. That is rather being a "man-pleaser". Paul didn't bear with those who thought they were something, and who attempted to distort the flock. "We were not subject to them, even for one hour (Gal 2:5)".

Those who wish to lead should lead by example, not fiat. The apostle Peter was very clear about this in his first epistle. He learned this lesson from Jesus Himself, the chief Shepherd. The nice thing about Peter is that he was a simple fisherman. Peter's words of advice are so simple and clear that even the clever ones cannot subvert them. Thank You Lord for brother Peter's testimony!
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Last edited by Cal; 08-29-2012 at 06:33 AM.
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