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Old 08-28-2012, 05:16 PM   #24
Peter Debelak
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Default Re: Organic Salvation

Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW View Post

Yes, just thinking "WWJD" won't answer every question or decide what action to take in all cases. But at least having that frame of mind is necessary to any kind of move toward righteousness.
I don't disagree with this. This, of course, acknowledges (in different words) that while "WWJD" has a place - perhaps even being a necessary mindset - the ACTUAL "righteousness" is not derived from asking the question or your own answer to it. Indeed, it is a change of our very person (call it "fundamental change", call it "organic growth" - whatever) that brings in any modicum of TRUE righteousness that might come out of us.

The responses here reflect an acknowledgement of the subtleties of the Truth as it is experienced in imperfect human lives. The Scripture says that Salvation is by faith; and it also says that faith without works is dead. It says to "work out your own salvation" and it says (in the SAME VERSE!) that God is both the willing and the working.

God's way IS one that requires us to engage in real ways (not just a "mysitical eating") and our faith can be measured by its fruits (indeed, if you claim spirituality while abusing others, then there's something unhealthy there).

But the actual CHANGE to our behavior, to our beings - is by a slow (often unnoticed) growth in life. It IS important to consider "the right thing to do," but "thanks be to God!" my salvation isn't dependant on me having the "gumption" to "make it happen."

The next right(eous) thing isn't always clear (as it is in the case of adultery, as someone used as an example). God's way, it seems to me, is to require us to petition Him - to seek, ask, knock. Not ask a question as if it is answerable BY US.

And perhaps that's my issue with WWJD: the way I see it employed is that it is asked as if the asker can answer the question. This is hubris ,and often goes the next step to turn into judgment (because human nature - and I see all the time - is to ask the question for others).

God's way is difficult. It requires faith while we engage as best we presently know how. But we don't like God's way. Because its not linear, not "practical". We would prefer to use mystical language to mechanize "eating God" to change us. Or we take a question which could be healthy ("WWJD") and actually think we can get "right answers" from it or justify our behavior simply because we ask it.

I remember a sermon I hearn in one of the groups I attended after leaving the LC. It was on Colossians 3:17: "do all things in His name" This is a great admonition. But the speaker gave a whole narrative on how to live the Christian life based just on this verse. But the speaker didn't mention Matthew 7 at all - that some who did works in His name were told by Christ, "get away from me you workers of lawlessness." "I never knew you."

I like the truth of "organic salvation" (substitute something more palatable if you like) because it gives this wretched man hope. I appreciate it not despite the Book of James, but precisely because there is a book of James. It is not a "free for all" of "life life life" regardless of what kind of human living that produces. It is an engagement with God daily that changes me - but if my living isn't producing good things, I know that my engagement with God is not a healthy one. If I change in the direction of righteousness, it won't be because I "learned" what is righteous and implemented it. It will be years from now, after years of engaging rigorously with my Savior daily, that I am a different person and I won't be able to pin it on this or that "realization." I will simply be different and more like Him because it is more He than I.

Enough of my rambling.... Thoughts?

In Love,

Peter
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