Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
|
Ohio, I am glad you cited this. I missed it the first time around.
I quote the beginning of the post:
When approaching Christian unity, the higher principles which are talked about by the Lord Jesus directly are "loving one another" (Mark 12:31-33) and "oneness" (John 17:21) among the believers. These two principles are the most directly taught and therefore, the most important. Any attempt to practically implement these higher principles must always be examined to unsure that these higher principles are not being undermined by the practical implementation itself. Two paradigms have emerged on this thread as ways to view the teaching of the church, and these two paradigms correspond to two very different ways of obtaining practical oneness among believers. The two paradigms are:
1) The "one city, one church" paradigm. The way to achieve oneness according to this paradigm is by bringing all Christians in a city to meet together under one administration.
2) Where 2 or 3 gather there I am in the midst" = the church. One practical way (not necessarily the only way) to achieve oneness in this paradigm is in having separate assemblies with separate administrations holding to unity of "the faith" (Eph 4:13)
I liked his "two paradigm" approach and wanted to comment. The LSM push for "one city, one church" dismisses paradigm two by saying that Jesus recommended us to "tell it to the church" in Matthew 18 when a sinning brother would not listen to a couple of saints. So "two or 3 gathered and there I am in their midst" and "the church" are different, in the LSM view. They don't say what "2 or 3 gathered there I am in the midst" is, if it is not the ekklesia, but simply go on. It is an "undetermined sub-unit", I guess.
I think that this reading is because they have decided already what outcome they want, and then they translate "ekklesia" to fit the pre-ordained outcome. But, what if: a) "ekklesia" or "ekklesias" can mean "assembly" or "meeting" instead of "church", and what if it can be either plural or singular? So it could mean, "When the sinning one does not hear two or three, then you are free to tell other groups about this person's behavior."
In Matthew 18 I see "ekklesia" and "ekklesias" both translated "church" because of presumed context, and 2 Corinthians 11:8 "ekklesias" translated as plural, "churches", because of context. But the context in Matthew 18 is not a given; it could be either singular or plural. It is not important, except if you want to use Matthew 18 as your "proof text" to dismiss paradigm two.
And then, when you DO have multiple meetings in one city, like college meetings and prayer meetings and home meetings, and Meeting Hall One and Meeting Hall Two, you don't call "ekklesias" as "churches" but as "meetings". That way you don't violate your own "one church, one city" paradigm.
What it involves, as I see it, is translating words one way when it is helpful to your paradigm, and translating them another way when they might be inconvenient. In other words, playing games with words. Now, I occasionally do the same thing, I admit; I think we all do sometimes. but I don't found a religious sect on it.