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Cal · 06-03-2012, 03:46 PM

Adapting to a non-LC church

I wanted to go on to talk about finding a new church after leaving the LC. I intentionally didn’t mention church much in my first post. The fact is, the view of the church is distorted in the LC, and in so doing the believer’s relationship to it is distorted as well.

The LC makes the believer’s involvement with the building of the church a matter of prime importance. But the Bible does not make this emphasis. In fact, Jesus himself barely mentioned the church. When the Bible does mention church-building, it is usually with the thought that God is doing the building, not us.

If you really go back and view the overall thought of the NT, especially the ministry of Jesus, you see that two main matters are stressed--first, our devotion and service to God, and second, our attitude and actions toward other people. Jesus focused on a holy life toward God and people. (Again, love God and love people.) But he barely mentioned the church as a thing or goal in and of itself.

This is not to say the church is not important, just that if you are supposedly taking care of the church while suing the pants off any other believer you please it’s clear you are way off the rails of what the NT is about. History and experience show that overemphasis on the church leads naturally to overemphasis and a defensive, even aggressive, posture about your particular church. This is precisely the error of the LC.

I think this is the reason Jesus did not talk about the church much, because to him the point is God and people, not God and some ideal institution.

Still, the Bible does reveal the church, so what is it about? The church is simply wherever believers are gathered in the Lord’s name. The church is all the believers through history. It’s also all the believers alive today. It’s also all the believers in the USA, and all of them in your city. And when thirty believers gather for worship and teaching in a rented storefront, that’s the church, too. None of us have the right or wisdom to look at a group of believers meeting and say they are not the church.

The church is a place where believers encourage and support each other, and grow together. It’s also a place where outsiders can observe these believers and their relationship with God. So in a sense, churches are ministry stations, that is of Jesus’ ministry. They do not exist for themselves, but for the sake of others, both believers and non-believers. And they come in all shapes and sizes.

After you leave the LC and are searching for a new church home, here are some things to think about:

Expect all levels of devotion. You'll meet some very devoted Christians in your new church, and you'll meet some that rarely read the Bible. You'll hear about affairs and divorces and guys that go to Hooters on business lunches. In short, it will probably be the church in Corinth. Guess what? Corinth was still a church. Learn to operate under the big tent of the whole church. You really don't have a choice, unless you want to start another superstar exclusive church that tries to run off everyone who is not 100%, like the LC did. But then where would you be? Yep, right back where you started.
Don’t expect the emphasis on The Church that you saw in the LC. Evangelical Christianity is called that for a reason. The emphasis there is on outreach and being a testimony. This is very healthy. Don’t expect to convert anyone to the Nee/Lee view of it all being about producing the Bride. Let God worry about the Bride and you worry about loving and serving people who need Jesus.

And don’t be bothered if you find that churches emphasize particular works, like overseas mission work, etc. As long as they don’t make participation in such work a requirement of membership you shouldn’t have much to worry about. But don’t expect their emphasis to be The Building of the Church. For one thing, in evangelical circles these days this is looked upon as being inward-looking and self-centered. And the fact is, it is.
Don’t expect the emphasis on spirituality you saw in the LC. By that I mean don’t start talking about things like “the Triune God in the tripartite man” and expect people to go “Ooooo, wow!” Rather, if you do that expect them to start backing away from you and saying, “Okeee, time to go.”

Expect God to be presented as more personal and everyday. Experienced pastors aren’t stupid. They know that high-falutin’ spirituality sounds pretentious and makes new people uncomfortable. Expect things to be understated and referred to in everyday terms. You will hear more about “changed lives” than you will about “being infused with the divine nature.” Don’t let that bother you. God is working regardless of how it’s referred to.
Don’t be bothered by the lack of “popcorn” testimonies. Despite the LC’s oft-stated belief that such a thing is necessary for the church to be built, the fact is, it isn’t. An LCer posted on the other forum that the church could not be built in “Christianity” because the “members of the Body” were not allowed to function there. By “functioning” he meant hopping up and saying something in a meeting, usually just regurgitating something that was taught. This kind of “functioning,” however, opens the door to all kinds of problems in large gatherings with many guests. We could argue all day whether it’s tenable, but what’s not arguable is that such a thing is required for legitimate churchhood. It isn’t. Expect to be free to share in Bible studies, Sunday schools, small groups and so forth. Don’t expect it, or worry about it, in larger meetings.
Don’t expect people to talk about the message after the service. It just doesn’t happen much. People listen and take in the message seriously, but they rarely discuss it in depth afterwards. Don’t expect a lot of “I really enjoyed….” Rather, expect “How are the kids doing?” and more typical conversation. It’s just the way it is. Learn to be human and get to know your new friends.

Also, don't expect everyone you don't know to look you in the eye and say "Praise the Lord!" Expect people to have the more typical behavior of not acting like they know you when they don't. It doesn't mean they don't love you, it just means they are normal. Just be friendly yourself and before long people will be greeting you, though probably not with a "Praise the Lord!" Get over it.
Don’t expect your new pastor to expect you to get permission from him for every little thing. If you want to see a totally quizzical look, just ask your new pastor if it’s okay to go on vacation and miss couple of weekends of meetings. In short, don’t expect him to lord it over you the way LC elders did.

If you want to start a work or ministry, I’m sure they will be supportive of it, though they may not want to work it into the Sunday morning rotation. This one messed with me for a long time. I was just uncomfortable “doing my own thing.” Yet, the only alternative was to get the church leaders fully onboard with it. (Not to mention to take time to even talk about it.) Finally, I realized they did not expect every legitimate work to be under the umbrella of their approval or notice. If I felt to start something, it was okay with them, but they couldn’t always dedicate church resources to it.

This is actually quite liberating, not to mention normal. But it is very different from the way things are done in the LC. Which makes one wonder how LCers can make the claim that it's in "Christianity" where the members are suppressed. Such logic is just way over my head.

06-03-2012, 03:46 PM	#5
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	Re: Tips on Making Leaving the LC Easier Adapting to a non-LC church I wanted to go on to talk about finding a new church after leaving the LC. I intentionally didn’t mention church much in my first post. The fact is, the view of the church is distorted in the LC, and in so doing the believer’s relationship to it is distorted as well. The LC makes the believer’s involvement with the building of the church a matter of prime importance. But the Bible does not make this emphasis. In fact, Jesus himself barely mentioned the church. When the Bible does mention church-building, it is usually with the thought that God is doing the building, not us. If you really go back and view the overall thought of the NT, especially the ministry of Jesus, you see that two main matters are stressed--first, our devotion and service to God, and second, our attitude and actions toward other people. Jesus focused on a holy life toward God and people. (Again, love God and love people.) But he barely mentioned the church as a thing or goal in and of itself. This is not to say the church is not important, just that if you are supposedly taking care of the church while suing the pants off any other believer you please it’s clear you are way off the rails of what the NT is about. History and experience show that overemphasis on the church leads naturally to overemphasis and a defensive, even aggressive, posture about your particular church. This is precisely the error of the LC. I think this is the reason Jesus did not talk about the church much, because to him the point is God and people, not God and some ideal institution. Still, the Bible does reveal the church, so what is it about? The church is simply wherever believers are gathered in the Lord’s name. The church is all the believers through history. It’s also all the believers alive today. It’s also all the believers in the USA, and all of them in your city. And when thirty believers gather for worship and teaching in a rented storefront, that’s the church, too. None of us have the right or wisdom to look at a group of believers meeting and say they are not the church. The church is a place where believers encourage and support each other, and grow together. It’s also a place where outsiders can observe these believers and their relationship with God. So in a sense, churches are ministry stations, that is of Jesus’ ministry. They do not exist for themselves, but for the sake of others, both believers and non-believers. And they come in all shapes and sizes. After you leave the LC and are searching for a new church home, here are some things to think about: Expect all levels of devotion. You'll meet some very devoted Christians in your new church, and you'll meet some that rarely read the Bible. You'll hear about affairs and divorces and guys that go to Hooters on business lunches. In short, it will probably be the church in Corinth. Guess what? Corinth was still a church. Learn to operate under the big tent of the whole church. You really don't have a choice, unless you want to start another superstar exclusive church that tries to run off everyone who is not 100%, like the LC did. But then where would you be? Yep, right back where you started. Don’t expect the emphasis on The Church that you saw in the LC. Evangelical Christianity is called that for a reason. The emphasis there is on outreach and being a testimony. This is very healthy. Don’t expect to convert anyone to the Nee/Lee view of it all being about producing the Bride. Let God worry about the Bride and you worry about loving and serving people who need Jesus. And don’t be bothered if you find that churches emphasize particular works, like overseas mission work, etc. As long as they don’t make participation in such work a requirement of membership you shouldn’t have much to worry about. But don’t expect their emphasis to be The Building of the Church. For one thing, in evangelical circles these days this is looked upon as being inward-looking and self-centered. And the fact is, it is. Don’t expect the emphasis on spirituality you saw in the LC. By that I mean don’t start talking about things like “the Triune God in the tripartite man” and expect people to go “Ooooo, wow!” Rather, if you do that expect them to start backing away from you and saying, “Okeee, time to go.” Expect God to be presented as more personal and everyday. Experienced pastors aren’t stupid. They know that high-falutin’ spirituality sounds pretentious and makes new people uncomfortable. Expect things to be understated and referred to in everyday terms. You will hear more about “changed lives” than you will about “being infused with the divine nature.” Don’t let that bother you. God is working regardless of how it’s referred to. Don’t be bothered by the lack of “popcorn” testimonies. Despite the LC’s oft-stated belief that such a thing is necessary for the church to be built, the fact is, it isn’t. An LCer posted on the other forum that the church could not be built in “Christianity” because the “members of the Body” were not allowed to function there. By “functioning” he meant hopping up and saying something in a meeting, usually just regurgitating something that was taught. This kind of “functioning,” however, opens the door to all kinds of problems in large gatherings with many guests. We could argue all day whether it’s tenable, but what’s not arguable is that such a thing is required for legitimate churchhood. It isn’t. Expect to be free to share in Bible studies, Sunday schools, small groups and so forth. Don’t expect it, or worry about it, in larger meetings. Don’t expect people to talk about the message after the service. It just doesn’t happen much. People listen and take in the message seriously, but they rarely discuss it in depth afterwards. Don’t expect a lot of “I really enjoyed….” Rather, expect “How are the kids doing?” and more typical conversation. It’s just the way it is. Learn to be human and get to know your new friends. Also, don't expect everyone you don't know to look you in the eye and say "Praise the Lord!" Expect people to have the more typical behavior of not acting like they know you when they don't. It doesn't mean they don't love you, it just means they are normal. Just be friendly yourself and before long people will be greeting you, though probably not with a "Praise the Lord!" Get over it. Don’t expect your new pastor to expect you to get permission from him for every little thing. If you want to see a totally quizzical look, just ask your new pastor if it’s okay to go on vacation and miss couple of weekends of meetings. In short, don’t expect him to lord it over you the way LC elders did. If you want to start a work or ministry, I’m sure they will be supportive of it, though they may not want to work it into the Sunday morning rotation. This one messed with me for a long time. I was just uncomfortable “doing my own thing.” Yet, the only alternative was to get the church leaders fully onboard with it. (Not to mention to take time to even talk about it.) Finally, I realized they did not expect every legitimate work to be under the umbrella of their approval or notice. If I felt to start something, it was okay with them, but they couldn’t always dedicate church resources to it. This is actually quite liberating, not to mention normal. But it is very different from the way things are done in the LC. Which makes one wonder how LCers can make the claim that it's in "Christianity" where the members are suppressed. Such logic is just way over my head.