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Cal · 05-17-2012, 10:19 AM

OBW,

For me it seems needful to come to some kind of insight other than "there is one and there is three" because that idea is, experientially, confusing and hindering. At least to me it is.

For example, when I pray to God, which one of the Three am I praying to? When God speaks to me, which one is speaking? Some people say "Jesus told me..." others say "The Holy Spirit told me..." Which expression is more correct?

If I say I have a relationship with Jesus, and then I say I have relationship with the Holy Spirit, am I really saying the same thing?

When God calls himself "I," as he does so many times, which of the three I's is talking? There are three I's right? So when God says "I am the Lord your God," is that the Father, the Son or the Spirit talking?

The problem with traditional trinitarianism is it never attempts to answer these questions or even recognize them. It just kind of talks around them and pretends they don't exist or are not important.

Lee saw--correctly, I think--that this mental need to recognize the Three as more separate than they probably are creates a barrier to experiencing God directly. He concluded from his experience that in some way they are one, yes, Person.

But, then again, God shows us there is a rich relationship between the Father and the Son. Lee downplayed this, to a loss, I think. That's been my argument in the past and I still stand by it.

At the same time, I think it is valid to say that when the Son loves and worships the Father, it is another way of looking at God loving and worshiping himself. We might be uncomfortable with the notion of God loving and worshiping himself, but from the standpoint of the One, what else would you call it? We tend to see self-love and admiration as a failing, but the Bible shows that having a proper love and respect for yourself is healthy. So why shouldn't God love and admire himself? He is, after all, the best thing going, and he knows it.

For me, the "self, self-image, relationship between the two" model is not THE ANSWER. It is just a helpful way of looking at things which provides an intuitive view of one way the Three can be One, and yet goes beyond the loose roles and obvious errors of typical modalism.

05-17-2012, 10:19 AM	#11
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	Re: Another Look at the Trinity OBW, For me it seems needful to come to some kind of insight other than "there is one and there is three" because that idea is, experientially, confusing and hindering. At least to me it is. For example, when I pray to God, which one of the Three am I praying to? When God speaks to me, which one is speaking? Some people say "Jesus told me..." others say "The Holy Spirit told me..." Which expression is more correct? If I say I have a relationship with Jesus, and then I say I have relationship with the Holy Spirit, am I really saying the same thing? When God calls himself "I," as he does so many times, which of the three I's is talking? There are three I's right? So when God says "I am the Lord your God," is that the Father, the Son or the Spirit talking? The problem with traditional trinitarianism is it never attempts to answer these questions or even recognize them. It just kind of talks around them and pretends they don't exist or are not important. Lee saw--correctly, I think--that this mental need to recognize the Three as more separate than they probably are creates a barrier to experiencing God directly. He concluded from his experience that in some way they are one, yes, Person. But, then again, God shows us there is a rich relationship between the Father and the Son. Lee downplayed this, to a loss, I think. That's been my argument in the past and I still stand by it. At the same time, I think it is valid to say that when the Son loves and worships the Father, it is another way of looking at God loving and worshiping himself. We might be uncomfortable with the notion of God loving and worshiping himself, but from the standpoint of the One, what else would you call it? We tend to see self-love and admiration as a failing, but the Bible shows that having a proper love and respect for yourself is healthy. So why shouldn't God love and admire himself? He is, after all, the best thing going, and he knows it. For me, the "self, self-image, relationship between the two" model is not THE ANSWER. It is just a helpful way of looking at things which provides an intuitive view of one way the Three can be One, and yet goes beyond the loose roles and obvious errors of typical modalism.