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Originally Posted by Ohio
I was following along really well until you launched into your "wacko" medicine.
Child is perfectly fine until he gets some new and improved vacc-shot, and you call it "anecdotal evidence." You wouldn't talk that way if it happened to your child.
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Autism typically sets in at a certain age. It is also an age at which certain vaccinations are given. Besides the correlation, there has, as yet, been no causal link provided. But your child, or grandchild, is put somewhat at risk despite their own vaccinations due to the presence of those without vaccinations. It is an emotional thing to have that happen to your child. But it does not prove anything. If autism tended to set in at about one year of age, then someone might suggest that the fact that most learn to walk then is the cause of the autism. We would laugh at them for saying that. But there is no more evidence that vaccinations are a cause of autism than any other natural milestone occurring at that time. Only a presumption that it is so. And once you believe it, you believe it.
And the kind of appeal to celebrity that people like Jenny McCarthy and others use as a way to get heard. They just want it to be true. But no one can prove it.
Now if I managed to step into a family minefield by using that example, I did not intend to make it personal to anyone. But there is no evidence of a link between vaccinations and autism other than proximity in time.
BTW, the older you get, the more likely you are to die. I suggest that we warn people about the dangers of getting older.
Based on the available data, that is just about as meaningful.
But the point is that people without the slightest idea of what they are talking about are the only ones really pushing this vaccination issue. In a similar way, it is almost only those of us who may be good at parsing English, but have no idea about Greek Hebrew, or the culture, idioms, etc., of the times who are suggesting that those who do are simply pulling the wool over our eyes to become "LEADERS." Sort of blame the experts and suggest that they aren't all in the same breath.
And we were first fed the idea by some who would be our non- leader leaders. Who would give us more rope than the previous leaders so we didn't see the similarities. And the fact that it was happening that way makes me suspect that the old leaders were actually less onerous than the new ones. Yet we bought their wares and continue to show them off even after we have discarded the salesman as a shyster.
I think that is the part that bothers me the most. We have seen through the source, but still cling to way too much of its produce. We seek the leeks and garlic of the LRC. We desperately want more Soylent Green. (For the younger ones out there, there's something to dig around for.)
I wasn't picking on John. We all do it. And even plain-ole evangelicalism somewhat leads us down that path when we are sort of told that "me and my bible" can figure it all out. Not saying we are idiots or fools, but at some level we can't. We need help. We do need teachers. And when we read the Bible as if every word is equally applicable to every person all of the time, we start to put a lot of guilt-trip on ourselves. We get down on ourselves for not being among those that go and disciple all nations. Or even disciple a bunch of the local neighborhood. I'm not sure that was a universal call. At least not as recorded in Matthew. And I've said so here before.
And if it is all for everyone, then I guess elders are ultimately pointless because we can all read those passages by Paul and do what it takes to become one ourselves. Just think, an assembly of elders. I bet that wouldn't last long.
My point is that the best among us — me included — are not immune to this plague. So many of us were set upon by some ideals during that age 16 to 30 period when you set many of your patterns for life. We seldom look to the left or right of our well-worn paths. The "funny" thing about it to me is that, while I see enough about it to point it out, I realize that I am just as much in that rut as anyone else. At least until I see/read/hear something that disconnects me from my rut. Forces me to look aside. Consider something different.
I'm not forcing a conclusion. I'm suggesting that we have concluded too quickly. That we really don't have all the evidence. We just think we do. I would not say that everything about the average leadership in Christianity is simply OK. But I suspect that it is better than the knee-jerk distrust that we have been taught. And taught by people that we don't even trust anymore. Go figure. I see it in me all the time.