Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
I am concerned, however, that the flavor of your extreme views mimics that of LSM. Your anti-training platform allows you to judge just about every Christian congregation and denomination on earth, the so-called "status quo." Also your statement here is a little frightful: "I believe that the Lord is fully capable of making a leader of anyone He chooses, whenever He chooses; and, that person doesn’t have to go through any formal educational system. The Lord looks on the heart, as he did with David. David did not sign up for Leadership 101." While no doubt true that He is able, it is exactly the same justification LSM used to exalt their own leader. Yikes!
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Ohio,
Didn't we have a long discussion, I think it was on the other forum, concerning the training that David went through in 1Sam?
I would just point out here, as a father that has raised three kids to play the violin, that this involves an arduous training process. My youngest has been playing for 2 years (it should have been 2 1/2 but he broke his arm). He is now at the point where he is considered "very talented" by his peers. He tells me he likes to "be good at something" and so now it is not difficult to motivate him anymore. But the first two years were much, much harder.
David was an accomplished musician, composer, and writer of songs. The idea that was done without training is utter nonsense.
If he was this disciplined with his musical studies do you (referring to John, not Ohio) really think he was that cavalier about his life? Sure, before playing before the KIng I'll practice, but fighting a giant like Goliath I'll just leave it in the hands of God?
John let me ask you a couple of simple question, according to the record in 1Sam David cut off Goliath's head and then held it throughout the battle and was still holding it when Saul talked with him. It seems awkward to hold the head of a giant in one hand while fighting with the other. Also, I had always assumed that he grabbed the hair, but "Goliath was a man of war from his youth" and our soldiers today have crew cuts specifically so that you cannot grab their hair. If I was going to shoot a movie and cast Goliath I would have chosen Arnold Schwarzneggar and his war movies all have crew cuts. One other problem I had with the story, David's three oldest brothers were fighting, David is the youngest in the family, so there were several older brothers that could have been sent instead of him. From the story it was clear that the brothers knew he wanted to join the fight, surely the father knew as well. Why send David? Finally, the Bible has nothing but glowing things to say concerning Jesse, the father of David. Most notable to me is 1Sam 16:1-3, where it is quite obvious in a country of millions of people God, Jesse and Samuel are all on a first name basis. Why does God and the Bible give such reverence to Jesse if it isn't for the fact that everyone of his sons has the appearance of the Lord's anointed to Samuel?
1. So assuming that Goliath had a crew cut how did David hold his head and fight at the same time?
2. Why did he do it?
3. Why did his father send him to the battle field?
4. If Jesse is not revered for the way in which he raised his sons then why is he revered?
Let me add a personal testimony here
A number of years ago I wanted to know how to raise my kids and so I looked to the Bible for a positive role model for a father. Ultimately I chose Jesse because like me he appeared to be a single father, not rich, and all of his children were positive examples. As a result I decided that I would teach my kids violin even though at the time of the decision it was a financial hardship. I also decided to have them learn Karate and I home schooled them for several years (even though both me and my wife had full time jobs).
The two oldest are very good at violin, they were black belts in Karate, they were both Valedictorians at their respective high schools, and one of them got a full scholarship to the top ranked engineering school in the country. I also learned a very interesting fact, less than 1% of NYC high school students say they play an instrument, yet more than 25% of the valedictorians say they play an instrument. If it is difficult today to include violin in my kids instructions, imagine how hard it must have been for Jesse.
So you can argue that David wasn't "trained" but I find that funny since I used Jesse's training as an outline to raise my kids.