Quote:
Originally Posted by UntoHim
77150,
You asked me to expound and so I did. The fact that you don't like that my expounding started off with a question is your problem.
I am going to make this very simple for you. You can respond in a straightforward manner or do not respond at all. In any case you need to stop playing games and posting in bad faith. Say what you mean and mean what you say.
Your opening post reflected a certain sentiment regarding happenings in the Local Church as they relate to these verses in Proverbs. I suspected that you had "something else" in mind. You really wanted to take a shot at "this site".
You waited a few days and then sprung the "obvious question" on us:
What is very obvious that you have a big problem with "this site". What is obvious is that you are going out of your way to hide your concerns and criticisms behind the guise of dialog, then once you've wasted our time you spring out with sarcastic stuff like what I quote above.
Stop wasting our time. Stop posting in bad faith.
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26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
I introduced these two verses because I felt they were relevant to the LRC and LSM. I understood the actions and teachings of the LSM to be folly. If you look at verse 4 alone you might think that this word is saying that when you answer, don’t do it according to his folly. But based on the construct I don’t think that is at all what it is saying. Instead, I think it is saying what I have very clearly and plainly said, in many situations you have to do a cost / benefit analysis. If you confront someone on an issue there is a cost and a benefit. This is not unlike a general figuring out if his 10,000 men can fight against the attacking army and if not deciding the best course of action is to seek peace (the Lord’s example) or like the builder who first has to calculate the entire cost of a project to determine if he can complete the project before he starts the project. The Lord used these examples to make it clear he wanted his disciples to be well aware of the cost, that they would have to forsake all, to be His disciple.
We had a discussion with a number of back and forth posts on this concept of cost / benefit analysis and whether this is the proper interpretation for this verse. I anticipated this and therefore stopped with this first concept in my post.
Some also took issue with the idea that the topics on this forum are dealing with “folly”. This I did not anticipate. However, thankfully, it was agreed that the book of Proverbs does teach concerning wisdom and folly.
I provided a number of proverbs that I feel touch on the same issues raised here. For example, “Fools make a mock of sin”. This verse reminds me of WL’s quote concerning Daystar that “the saints had lost their virginity”. If anyone agrees that this quote of WL is mocking his sin, then you agree that Proverbs is calling WL a fool. Folly refers to the acts of a fool. In Post #9 I provided you with about 40 quotes from Proverbs that I felt could be directly linked to discussions on this forum. It is not necessary for anyone to agree with all, if you agree with some then you agree that we are discussing the “folly” of WL, PL, LSM, LRC, etc.
In that Post I said
19:5 A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.
Do you think that the Lord Jesus might be using this site to make sure that this verse is fulfilled?
I think anyone who has read that post can see a very valid basis for me to link verses 4 and 5 in chapter 26 with wondering how to deal with LSM/LRC. Regardless of whether you agree with me, the thread and post is focused on dealing with LSM, all posts are relevant and clear.
According to your post you “suspected that I had something else in mind and wanted to take a shot at “this site”.
Why would you say this? How is saying that WL is a false witness and will not go unpunished “taking a shot at this site”?
You took issue with the question I raised “Since this site is rebuking the folly of WL, LSM and the LRC does it follow that this site must "be like them"?
The context of this statement is clearly Proverbs 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
I do not believe you understand this verse, which is why you took such great offense at the question. I am not “playing games”.
Proverbs 3:30 Strive not with a man without cause, if he have done thee no harm
This is basic wisdom. We teach this to children. However, if you look at the so called “sister’s rebellion” I would contend that WL strove with these sisters without cause and that they had done him no harm. Why would he do something so foolish? I think it was to deflect attention from his own misdeeds.
However, I haven’t done you any harm, so why are you saying that “I am playing games” and that “I am not posting in good faith”, suggesting that I was being deceitful?
Proverbs 8:13 The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate
Again, I feel WL expressed a lot of pride and arrogancy in his ministry. I also think he was very litigious, which is how I understand the word “froward mouth”.
As we know “the fear of the Lord” is the beginning of wisdom. It is also the secret to departing from evil. So surely, as much as we condemn the pride, arrogance, evil way and litigious nature, so much the more we would hope to depart from this evil.
12:1b he that hateth reproof is brutish.
In all my experience of WL this seems to me to be the one most defining characteristic. I never saw him “reproved” but listening to him speak you realized if someone so much as looked askance he would go nuts. When I heard this I chalked this up as referring to things going on behind the scenes that I was unaware of, but if I was then I would understand. Now that I understand more I would say that WL hated reproof and was brutish. But when I speak this word I understand that I will be judged with the same judgement. That is why I asked you to explain why you reproved me. But I still don’t understand why.
13:1b a scorner heareth not rebuke
Along these lines I think this verse also applies to WL. Scorn is to express contempt or derision for. I heard WL express contempt and derision for others a lot. And sure enough, he could not or would not hear rebuke. Now surely I do not want to be like that. It is a very dangerous thing to express contempt or derision, yet how can this website speak the truth concerning LSM, WL, BBs, Whistler, etc. without doing that? Hence, in order to rebuke the scorner it will be difficult to impossible not to “also be like unto him”.
13:10 Only by pride cometh contention:
While I was in the LRC I saw a lot of contention. More than I ever saw in any Christian group. I also saw a lot of pride.
Now I stand by my words that Proverbs 26:4-5 refer to how a disciple of Christ would calculate his actions in dealing with the LRC/LSM/BBs. I don’t agree with your assessment that I have been playing games. I don’t agree with your assessment that my posts have been in bad faith. But I have reviewed these posts with this in mind. I have tried to listen to the rebuke and embrace the reproof.