[OBW]

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Of course I could fathom it, otherwise why even have this discussion? But what evidence have you provided? Context?

The context is

1. This is the conclusion of the book of Matthew, a book written for all believers. Therefore I find it strange that at such a crucial juncture there would be an aside meant only for 11 and recorded as an FYI. Not impossible, but unlikely.

I guess that sending out 70 was code for sending out everyone. I have not bothered to look into whether this is mentioned in Matthew. But I would presume that the same argument would be made for all of the gospels. And it is the use of a broad brush full of whitewash to make it all one way.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

2. In this conclusion all authority is given to the resurrected and ascended Lord who has been made head over all things to the church. It is based on this authority that he tells His disciples to go and disciple the nations. Based on the fact that this charge is a direct result of all authority given to the Lord I have to believe that this charge is to the church, since according to Ephesians the power that was wrought in raising Christ from the dead and making Him head over all was given to the church.

And so, since all power is given to the church, this word has to be a general commission.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

They have been given to me as a pattern, even as Paul said. Why would Paul tell me to "be imitators of me" if I wasn't meant to be an imitator of him?/

Paul's statement meant to mean that they should do all the things that he does and in the way he does time?

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

4. The context is that the work of discipling the nations did not stop and cease 1900 years ago once these 11 died.

You have forgotten that from the very first, I did not say that it was only to the 11, but to those who have the charge to give their lives to it. And that does not mean that our lives are not given to Christ, but that we each have different parts in the whole "enterprise" of the church.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Therefore biographies of Hudson Taylor, or William Carey, or Martin Luther, or Billy Graham, or others can also illustrate what it means to go and disciple the nations.

And I would agree. And it might be that even in my alternate reading that these people are clearly among those charged in Matthew 28.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

5. Experience and history has shown that the bulk of the work of discipling the nations has been done by the Body of Christ as the church. By any reasonable measure there are more people being discipled today and taught to observe all things that Jesus taught today than there ever were by the original 11.

Still missing th point. It never was intended to be simply to the 11 then dormant or completed. But what I am talking about is not simply what we all can "do."

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

How is it that you cannot comprehend that a brother or sister teaching Sunday school today is walking according to this charge? A teenager preaching the gospel at their school is walking according to this charge? A bible study, home meeting, or Sunday morning worship is walking according to this charge?

Each of these are components of our charge. Of the living of the Christian life. Surely it is evident that the whole process requires us all. But the underpinning of coming to sufficient knowledge to do those things required that someone disciple us and teach us to obey. It required that someone that we accepted as speaking for God (not just in a "prophetic" way) directed us

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

7. The context of the book of Matthew is that Jesus "will build His church".

That is a lens through which you choose to read Matthew. It is an important passage in Matthew that constitutes less than half of one chapter. But it is not simply "the context" of Matthew.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

According to Ephesians, the conclusion of Matthew, the conclusion of the crucifixion, death and burial of Jesus, is that He resurrected from the dead, ascended to the heavens, and all authority was given to Him to be head over the church.

?????

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Building the church is a major theme of Matthew, it is built on the critical revelation of the entire book -- Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

I do not want anyone to think that I consider the church a minor theme, but "the church" seems to be mentioned twice. They are not insignificant mentions, but to call it a major theme is to suggest seriously colored glasses.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

Limiting that conclusion to a word meant only for the 11 limits the revelation of this book.

Baloney. Only if you are insistent that without it being personally to you that your calling by God is knocked-down in importance. But importance to who? You calling is important as it is without that verse. It is not diminished. It is what it is.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

So I see lots of evidence, whether the writings of Paul, the Acts of the Apostles, or church history, or even my own experience to know that this word from the Lord is still very much in force to all of us: "Go and disciple the nations, teaching them to obey all things that the Lord has spoken"

Paul does not directly refer to this, even in Ephesians 1. Acts sort of does, but probably not the way you think. Church history bears out to me that there have always been those who have a charge to keep us focused and moving in our discipleship and keeping focused on our obedience and righteousness. And within this framework there is significant "work" for us. Part of it is in things like teaching Sunday school, talking to our friends and neighbors, etc.

And none of what I am suggesting is to diminish what we do, or its importance or significance. I just see what seems to me to be an indication that there is something in this particular charge that we have missed in the past. A charge that is important to the church but is not generally to all of us. It is actually happening the way I understand it anyway. The only thing is that I think this passage is talking about it the way I am seeing it.