Quote:
Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah
Gifts operate by training others to do the same thing they do. Evangelists train you to evangelize. Shepherds train you to shepherd. Teachers train you to teach.
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I realize that we've been taught that. But lately I've begun to wonder if it is really true. Are we evangelized so that we will evangelize? Or are we evangelized so that we will be evangelized? Are we taught so that we will teach, or are we taught so that we will learn and do?
I note that Jesus told a few to "teach them to obey." He said to make them followers.
Now I realize that if there are to be more evangelists, then someone must either be gifted by the Holy Spirit to be an evangelist, or . . . . I think that the definition of being a gift is just that, to be gifted. And since it is not a matter of just doing what comes naturally (even if it sometimes seems partly that way) but of what the Spirit gifts us to do, then who needs someone else to train you to be your gift?
And, of course, the obvious flaw in that view is that teachers may be gifted at teaching, but they have to learn what it is they are going to teach. So there is a learning part, maybe to a whole lot of the so-called gifts. In other words, there is an aspect of being given a gift, but there is also at least some times an aspect of training that goes with it. You don't just get the gift of preaching. There have been some people who just had a knack for saying the right kinds of things and got followings. One of those was some kid back in the 50s (I think) who dumped it all when he grew up because it was just something natural. Can't remember the name, but it was a big, national thing at the time.
Obviously I'm not clear on this. But despite the teaching we got in those verses in Ephesians about the Big Letter whatevers making little letter whatevers of the same kind, it doesn't actually say that. It just says they perfect the rest of us for the work of ministry. I wonder if we are still stuck in a presumption that "ministry" is an automatic reference back to the immediate items before rather than a whole lot of things, including the ministry of being righteous in your daily life (rather than running people off the road and "checking" about it so that you can be right about it (really need a tongue-in-cheek emoticon)).
In other words, we are perfected to be what we were intended to be. It takes things like evangelists, shepherds, teachers, etc., to do that. But is what we are intended to be simply evangelists, shepherds, teachers, etc? Or is it image-bearers. People expressing God in their whole life, not just their "religious" or "spiritual" life. In their letting people in as they enter the freeway as much or more than their "I've got a lot of knowledge about God" life.
Now I realize that I only quoted the little part that I spoke on above. But I might not entirely characterize the role of the apostle in the manner you did, but pretty close. I believe that it is even true of some other gifts. Things like signs and miracles. Or tongues. On the day of Pentecost, Peter and the others started speaking. They spoke clearly in many different languages that others there understood. That did two things. First it made a clear presentation of whatever they were saying (the gospel) to everyone. Second, it was clearly something beyond the natural capabilities of these people and it demonstrated a power beyond the mortal.
Then it was repeated with the Samaritans, and again at the house of Cornelius. It is not clear that these two were as much for the Samaritans and Gentiles as it was for the Jews to accept that God really was including them.
And besides the discussion in 1 Corinthians, are tongues mentioned again? That does not answer the obvious questions, but it does at least raise the question. The only place besides those three in Acts (if I am remembering properly) is in 1 Corinthians. And they are obviously going crazy with it. Not in a very Christian way. Makes you wonder whether Paul was sort of hinting at something when he suggested that they would eventually "pass away." Not trying to throw barbs at the Pentecostals/charismatics, but maybe the idea that it is some regular, ongoing, "everybody needs this" kind of thing is not right. Maybe it is a gift when needed. Like when there is a communication issue, or maybe part of that pioneering thing you were talking about. (Those people who can't even speak my language -- so why am I going to try and understand their "God" stuff in their language -- suddenly speak like natives. It happened only once, but it makes you a little less skeptical about that "God" thing they are talking about.)
Gifts as needed. Not necessarily as all-the-time abilities. Although some may be.
Just thinking out loud.