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Cal · 09-16-2011, 08:47 AM

I think this sums up the thread pretty well.

I think all of us are comfortable with the idea of apostolic gifting still being given. This satisfies those who have brought to our attention Eph 4:11. Ephesians 4:11 speaks of gifts, not offices. Note it says shepherds, not elders.

The question is, what is our ground for saying there is an office of apostle, and further, that it no longer exists?

The ground is, this is the judgment of the Body of Christ. The vast majority of serious students of the Bible agree that apostle of the rank and authority of the original 15 or 16 no longer exist because of their required being directly commissioned by the Lord Jesus. Those men had the office of apostle, and men of such type can no longer exist.

Now "can no longer exist" is not an absolute statement. It is situational and practical and borne of centuries of precedent. The Lord Jesus could directly commission someone today if he wanted to in the post-ascension manner he commissioned Paul. However, it is reasonable to assume that such an appointment would include the proof of the power of signs and wonders. It is unreasonable to assume the Lord would expect us just to take someone's word that He appeared to him directly and commissioned him with the authoritative office of apostle.

09-16-2011, 08:47 AM	#390
Cal Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: USA Posts: 4,333	Re: The definition of Apostle I think this sums up the thread pretty well. I think all of us are comfortable with the idea of apostolic gifting still being given. This satisfies those who have brought to our attention Eph 4:11. Ephesians 4:11 speaks of gifts, not offices. Note it says shepherds, not elders. The question is, what is our ground for saying there is an office of apostle, and further, that it no longer exists? The ground is, this is the judgment of the Body of Christ. The vast majority of serious students of the Bible agree that apostle of the rank and authority of the original 15 or 16 no longer exist because of their required being directly commissioned by the Lord Jesus. Those men had the office of apostle, and men of such type can no longer exist. Now "can no longer exist" is not an absolute statement. It is situational and practical and borne of centuries of precedent. The Lord Jesus could directly commission someone today if he wanted to in the post-ascension manner he commissioned Paul. However, it is reasonable to assume that such an appointment would include the proof of the power of signs and wonders. It is unreasonable to assume the Lord would expect us just to take someone's word that He appeared to him directly and commissioned him with the authoritative office of apostle.