[UntoHim]

Originally Posted by OBW

We have skipped the stipulation of facts, or failed to hash out the underlying facts first. Once apostle is defined, then we can deal with how to find them, or then begin to take on whether that is an ongoing "gift" to the body. And if someone is using a different definition, point them back to where it was decided what an apostle is/was. And if we decide that apostle has more than one meaning, then we need to be sure that we are talking about the same definition in the same context.

Excellent points Mike. As a practical matter I think we MUST start by looking at the examples provided to us in the New Testament. What did the original/early apostles teach and preach, and maybe even more important, how did they conduct themselves. We are not without examples and a clear record.

Now, this being said, I realize we are now about 2000 years down the road. We are facing realities that the original apostles would never have dreamed of. The "information age" can be both a blessing and a tremendous hindrance to "public figures". If the apostle Paul was around today do you think that everything published on the internet about him and his ministry would be positive?

Ok, ok I haven't addressed the issue of HOW DO WE DETERMINE just who is or who is not an apostle. Maybe if it's so darn hard to determine then maybe that's some sort of confirmation that they don't exist. We know that there are no apostles today that carry the authority and power of the original apostles. First and foremost there is nobody writing scripture. Also nobody is ministering with the same apostolic authority or healing people like the original apostles.

So what then are the necessary "requirements"? I would say that an apostle should exhibit the same traits (for lack of better term) as the original apostles. Maybe they are not writing scripture but they are relating foundational truths of doctrine and practice across a broad spectrum of the Church. This is one reason I would never accept Witness Lee as an apostle - he only ministered among those of his own isolated sect - he had a captive audience that was customized and ready-made to accept him as "the one minister with the one ministry for the age".