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Originally Posted by Ohio
Abraham told the rich man in Luke 16 that, "they have Moses and the prophets,let them hear them," when the rich man begged for someone to "rise from the dead." Abraham felt that people already had enough "proof." Yet God went further to "prove his designation," by many signs and wonders testifying who Jesus was. God then went further to raise Him from the dead. Nor God didn't stop there. He wrought many works of power through the Apostles. Their teachings have also been added to scripture.
Church history is filled with many more works of power ... The Head of the body has been giving "gifts" to man for 2,000 years. He has never stopped. Church history also records that many "confirming signs" have accompanied the gospel pioneers to new lands. The Bible tells us that the only hindrance to "confirming signs" is unbelief. For example, the city of Nazareth witnessed no "confirming signs" because of their unbelief.?
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Good words, all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohio
I used Ephesians 4 to say that the Head never stopped giving "gifts" to men. Whether the body requires the continual necessity of apostles is not my responsibility, it is His. He has never told us that we don't need them.
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I may have mischaracterized your argument to make mine. I believe I've done that once or twice before.
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Originally Posted by Ohio
Nor did I use 2 Tim 4:20b to say there was a turning of an age. It was cited to address the circus-carnival-wonder-working-demonstrations-of-power that were being demanded of the apostles for verification. If Paul to be such a on-demand-faith-healer, why would he leave a brother sick somewhere? For that matter, why would anyone ever be sick around the early Apostles? Why didn't Paul just send him a clean hanky?
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Interesting questions. I have my own theories. I think the organization of the "church" co-opted the Spirit. Instead of feeding the thousands, they organized deacons.
Now, having said that, I immediately place myself waaaaaay at the bottom. Whatever "works of power" were evinced in the scripture, and in the record of history, I should tremble even to tap at a keyboard, if my "works" were to be set up next and compared. So I certainly don't write as "one who has laid hold".
But I am indignant when I see people set themselves up as something, when they clearly are not validated by God, to draw away the foolish and the simple (nor, conversely, do I yearn for the circus-like "power... and authority ... and signs" seen in Revelation 13 by the false prophet and the beast).