Quote:
Originally Posted by awareness
So we were having a very active discussion about the book of Job, until UnToHim hosed us down with his fire hose.
Lee has a Life Study of Job. And of course the book of Job has to do with Lees' God's Economy. Lee saw in the book of Job something that wasn't there. Take a look at chapter 12 of Lee's Life Study of Job.
Click here -> http://www.ministrybooks.org/books.c...27%3A%20%29%0A |
In that active discussion I was accused of having "Lee esque" teaching. I challenged this, in Post #165, Elvis has left the building, "If this is so Lee esque, why don't you quote what Lee shared on the book of Job. Lee never shared any of this. This is a genuine straw man argument that you have not provided the least bit of evidence to support. Provide one quote from WL that he interpreted Job this way, because I never saw it."
I have gone to the Life Study of Job, chapter 29, and gathered the appropriate quotes, you be the judge. WL quotes are in black, mine are in blue.
WL: In His questioning of Job, Jehovah first asked him, "Who is this who darkens counsel/By words without knowledge?" (38:2). Would you like to be addressed in this way? This kind of question is neither pleasant nor peaceful but quite threatening. Eventually, Job would have to admit that it was he who darkened counsel by speaking words of nonsense, words without revelation.
ZNP: 1. Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?
Clearly, to have a productive discussion requires some basic knowledge. You need to know certain things.
WL: Job 38:4-38 covers the divine unveiling concerning the universe, including matters related to astronomy and geography. During this unveiling Jehovah asked Job a number of questions. For instance, He asked him, "Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?/Tell Me, if you have understanding./Who set its measurements—if you know?/Or who stretched the measuring line over it?/Onto what were its bases sunk,/Or who laid its cornerstone,/When the morning stars sang together/And all the sons of God shouted for joy?" (vv. 4-7).
In the divine unveilings to Job,
there was nothing concerning the purpose of God in dealing with Job. Thus, the adequate knowledge of this matter is not found in this book. The revelation regarding the purpose of God's dealing with Job had to wait until Christ came and until the apostle Paul was produced.
ZNP: 2. Where were you when I laid the foundation of the Earth?
The Lord asks Job a number of questions about the details of how the Foundation of the Earth was laid. According to the context, this is the Lord’s answer to Job’s question. So for part 1, what is the point to life, the Lord could respond that this was the laying of the foundation for Job’s life. If you read the rest of the story that would be consistent. For part 2 you could say that God is building a man that can judge the wicked, and what he has been doing is to lay the foundation for this man. For part 3 you could say that the Lord is laying a foundation, not punishing Job for sins. This also is consistent with the beginning of the story. Clearly, the evil that came upon Job was not a response to sin.
WL: In 40:2 Jehovah said to Job, "Shall one who finds fault contend with the Almighty?/Let him who argues with God answer it." Jehovah's question here indicates that He regarded Job as a fault finder, as one who was contending with the Almighty. Job had been arguing with God and even condemning him. Job could not deny that this was the very thing that he had been doing.
ZNP: 3. Job 40:1 “moreover the Lord answered Job and said, shall he that contends with the Almighty instruct Him?”
God is saying ‘Ok, you instruct me, you don’t like what I am doing, even though I have created the entire universe and done many marvelous works that you are completely clueless about, fine, instruct me, how do I build a man?’ To say that these questions are an answer to Job require that you use the context of the preceding 37 chapters.
WL: Finally, Jehovah asked Job if he had an arm like God's and if he could thunder with a voice like His (v. 9).
The book of Job is a book of argument. In reading this book, we need to learn of Job, of his three friends, and of Elihu to be silent and let God be the only one to speak.
ZNP: 4. Job 40:9 “Hast thou an arm like God? Or canst thou thunder with a voice like Him?”
Again, this is the Lord answering Job’s question. 1. What is the point of human life? Well, it is to express God, we were made in the image and likeness of God. Therefore we should have an arm like God and a voice like God. 2. Who and where is the man that will judge the wicked? He is a man that is made in the image and likeness of God. This is the point of the book of Job. God is making Job into His image and likeness. All of the complaints were about the process, God says ‘look you don’t even know how to make the Earth, why are you complaining about how I make a man in my image?’ 3. What is my sin? Your sin is that you have fallen short of the glory of God. You think that it is good enough to be righteous, but what God wants is a man that expresses him. God wants a man that has an arm like His and a voice like His.
Personally, I feel that the accusation that I was teaching "Lee esque" is patently untrue. For example WL's statement that there was nothing concerning the purpose of God in dealing with Job is a direct contradiction of my teaching, but ironically very much in line with those accusing me of teaching "Lee esque". I feel I am owed an apology by both of them.
OBW Post #139, Elvis has left the building: “I know you wont like this, but this kind of argument is very Lee-esque.”
OBW Post #161, Elvis has left the Building: “And, once again, this is very Lee-esque. You don't have to like the comparison. But it is real.”
Awareness Post #137, Elvis has left the building: “So you've gotten out of Lee's movement, but haven't got Lee's movement out of you?”
Take a look at the quotes from WL and tell me who is darkening counsel without knowledge?