Quote:
Originally Posted by zeek
What is the morally sufficient reason for permitting evil?
If there were a morally sufficient reason, that might be the case.
No. All you have done is baldly assert that there is a morally sufficient reason for evil. You have not supported your premise with any argument to justify accepting it.
Now that's subjective. Maybe Harold is looking for an observable, quantifiable change in humanity rather than one that is based on faith alone. Jesus and Paul apparently thought the Kingdom of God would be fully manifest in their lifetime. Instead what we have is a kingdom that is evident only to faith. Perhaps Harold's dissappointment lies in that fact.
|
How do you guys quote like that?
So elaborating,
Premise, God cannot exist because evil exists.
I insert, unless God has a morally sufficient reason to do so. As long as this is plausible then the premise is incorrect.
Ex. I meet Zeek for the first time and he says he drove his Jeep here in the rain. I look at the parking lot and I do not see a jeep. Therefore since the Jeep is not in the parking lot then Zeek did not drive here. I assert this and Zeek told me he likes to walking in the rain and therefore parked really far away and walked here. Premise no longer stands. Notice it does not have to be probable, just plausible that he likes to walk and it defeats the premise. Now the premise must change to.
" I do not think it is plausible for you to like walking long distances in the rain when you have a car" - Note this is a very different argument then the first.
Now the question is why does God permit evil. You can go about this argument in many aspects. I hope I can convey some of it as books and books have been written on this subject.
1. Free will argument. Due to the fact the humans have choice, and we originally chose to dis-obey God, sin and evil entered. God did not create mindless drones. He wants us to love and choose him.
Rebuttal - This isnt a game, there is so much evil, why cant he get rid of some or limit some.
In another reality I could fashion my hand into a sword. Or in another reality a paper cut was the worst thing that can happen to you.
2. When a first born is born into the world. The parents do everything for their kid. As he grows up he chooses to learn how to hold a cup, tie his own shoe laces, cross a street by himself, go to school, pick a university, a wife have kids himself. Part of parenting is knowing how to let go but doing your best to supply your kids with knowledge of right and wrong and good decision making skills. Their is NO guarantee however that perfect parents will yield perfect children. It is ultimately the child's choice to choose his ways no matter the influence. Sure the parents could put their kids in a padded white room, isolate all contact from other humans and subject him to no fear no evil no life. But of course we all know that wouldnt be humane. If God wanted mindless worship or beings that do as their told every time and all the time it wouldnt be us.
3. The truth is and according to the bible, God loves all of us. His heart breaks when we sin and are separated from him. The fact is that God is good and holy. He cannot and does not accept sin or evil so unfortunately their is Gods wrath. Evil is not from God but in his absence hence no contradiction.
4. The bible talks alot about suffering. It does not ignore it. Anyways im at work so I'll elaborate on it next time but we can obtain joy and peace through suffering. "Take Joy my brothers when you face trials of many kinds. For the testing of your faith develops perseverance" Christianity has the best (in my opinion) world view on suffering.
Anyways I hope I didnt mess that explanation up too bad and made some sense in it.
I luv this stuff and apologetics. I recommend looking up some atheist and theist debates as it is very useful knowledge. Not required for faith as we are saved by faith alone but never the less interesting.