Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
Unless apostles can operate effectively as apostles without being recognized as apostles it does little good to have them if the church cannot discern them. On the other hand, if they can operate effectively as apostles without apostolic recognition then the need to recognize them is moot. However, as aron said the Lord said we should discern false apostles, which means we should discern true ones as well.
This discussion is really academc if discerning apostles entails little more than taste and opinion. I've asked several times about how to discern apostles, but there has been little input. What do apostles do? How do we know a true apostle? Z said by their fruit. What fruit, exactly?
Here are few names.
Andrew Murray
Watchman Nee
Billy Graham
A.W. Tozer
T.A. Sparks
C.S. Lewis
Witness Lee
Titus Chu
Joel Osteen
Beth Moore
Joyce Meyer
John Stott
J.I. Packer
Rick Warren
Do you consider any of these apostles? Why or why not?
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Before I touch that you have to define what an apostle is. I think that there must be a difference between "an apostle" and "a teacher". If you teach that we are saved by Faith, then I would say you are a teacher. But, if like Martin Luther, that teaching was earth shaking then I think you are not merely a teacher but an apostle. You were sent with this mission to unlock this truth. The truth, for whatever reason, had been locked away, and he was sent to "unlock" it.
Likewise I think there is a difference between being "an apostle" and "an evangelist". If you preach salvation, then I think you are an evangelist. If however, you take the gospel to a people that had hitherto never received it, as Hudson Taylor did, then perhaps you are more than an evangelist, you are an apostle. So I would clarify this, if your mission is to preach the gospel so that people can be saved, you are an evangelist. If your mission is to preach the gospel so that churches can be raised up, then you are an apostle.
Now I don't believe that the standards applied to an Evangelist or Teacher or Apostle should be any higher than that applied for an elder. I am not saying that they should be the same, rather I am just saying they don't need to be higher. No one expects an elder to be sinless, but we do expect them to be above reproach. Unlike an elder, I don't think these gifts require that you be married or to have raised your family well. But, if you are married you should be the husband of one wife (or vice versa), if you do have children you should have raised them well, etc. You don't have to be a teetotaler, but you should not be a drunkard, etc. Consider Martin Luther, if he is going to be examined and scrutinized the way he was, he has to above reproach otherwise the ministry will suffer. Likewise, Hudson Taylor was scrutinized by the Chinese, if he was not above reproach it would have damaged his ministry.