[RollingStone]

WL in his footnotes commented on the churches descibed in Revelations as having attributes that were reflected in present day churches. He compared the "Recovery" to the church in Philadelphia. The church in Thyatira to the Catholic church. vs 20 foot note 2. In chapter 3 verse 1 footnote 1 he states that as a sign the church in Sardis prefigures the Protestant church. And WL in 3:14 footnote 1 "As a sign the church in Laodicea prefigures the degraded recovered church. In Rev 2:1 footnote 1 he refers to the suffering church under the persecution of the Roman empire as the church in Smyna.

The church in Pergamos in verse 1 footnote 1 WL only says that Pergomos was pre symbolizing the worldly church and does not tie it to a group, (ie Protestant, Catholic, Recovered, degraded Recovered) He attributes the Pergomos church to the time from Constantine until the papal system.

(my opinion) For the Recovery to compare themselves to the church in Philadelphia (brotherly love) I haven't been feeling the love part.

WL places these churches in a timeline one after another.
Lets consider brother that John wrote these letters to the seven churches that were in these locations at a certain time describing positive and negative attributes as to what the Spirit was saying to the churches.

Didn't these attributes exist there at that time and exist and have been growing since them. I believe that the Catholic Church has the attributes of what is described in the letter to the Church in Thyratira BUT doesn't it also have attributes that are expressed in the letter to the church in Pergamos. Does the Catholic Church have teachings of Balaam and the Nicolaitans? In 2:20 the negative thing is expressed. "But I have something against you, that you tolerate the woman Jezebel she who calls herself a prophetess and teaches and leads My slaves astray to commit fornication and to eat idol sacrifices. Can it be that this negative didn't manifest itself until the Catholic Church manifested as WL expresses in his footnotes? In that case the Church in Thyratira would have thought John was out of line for accusing them of being a bunch of Jezabels.

It is probably more likely that some in Thyratira would have understood what was meant by John.s letter.

Maybe WL used these footnotes to identify the "Recovery" as the approved church and identified with the positive aspects of the Church in Philadelphia to keep the sheep gathered in one place. I don't know and that is another subject as i want to focus on the church that he doesn't identify other than being the one that was worldly. Where in 2:14 the negative that is pointed out as that you have some there who hold onto the teachings of Balaam, who taugh Balak to put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel.

In WL 2:14 footnote 1 he states, In these epistles the Lord desired according to God's economy, that we eat Him as the tree of life (v.7), the hidden manna (v.17), and the rich produce of the land (3:20; see note 7 footnote 5 in this chapter); but the worldly church turned from life to mere teachings, thus distracting the believers from enjoying Christ as their life supply for the fullfillment of God's purpose. The enjoyment of Christ builds up the church, whereas teachings issue in a religion.

Isn't this what Living Stream doing? They are focusing on 1 teaching and calling it the oneness in the body.

Isn't Living Stream being critical of those enjoying Christ a strategy to keep the focus on their teaching?

They have become a religion. (My opinion)

footnote 15:1
Have they not become Balaam? distracting the believers from the person of Christ to idoatry. Don't they manifest the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Issued forth teachings that have destroyed the function of the believers as members of the Body of Christ.

They have idolized LSM, LSM materials, Witness Lee to the point of accepting nothing else.
EVERYTHING ELSE IS REJECTED.

They have expressed that they already have everything and have no need.

They are in love with LSM traditions and customs and reject anything else.


The following is included in a wikippedia desciption for Moabite:


Balaam was a Gentile priest who could hear from God who lived with the Moabites next to the Israelites. They had the same history as being decendants of Lot who left Sodom with Abraham.

they have the same ancestry and history, they had the same language, they had the same thoughts and understanding as the Israelites. But what were their teachings as mentioned in the letter to the Church in Pergomos.

Could it be they taught that they could hear from the most High and didn't need anything from the Israelites? They didn't give them anything either as when meeting them they don't give you food and drink and were taught to curse you. (haven't we been quaranteed, called lepers)( I have been called a "smelly brother" as I have been near the Great Lakes brothers so we are all stinky I guess)(should we make a list of all the curses that have come our way?) I am sure cursing has gone both ways. Maybe you will be mad at me for calling you a Moabite and your leadership that is controling you Balaam. Like the Moabites you have become exclusive from everyone elses worship. My hope is that i am a jackass that is speaking about what direction that you are heading with the hope thatyou can go another way.
Ned
Wikipedia :Moabite
[edit] Moabite and Israelite Relations
According to Genesis, the Moabites were relatives of the Israelites, both peoples tracing their descent back to a common ancestor, Terah. Terah's son Haran fathered Lot, whose son Moab was born after an incestuous relationship between Lot and his eldest daughter (Genesis 19:37). The Moabites descended from Lot's son Moab.
The Moabites were friendly with the Egyptians, having kinship ties with them through Joseph[citation needed]. The principal shrine in Moab was Beyt-baal-me’on, which means “house/shrine of the baal/master/god of On.” The principal shrine of On was in the sacred city of Heliopolis in Egypt and Joseph married one of the daughters of the high priest of On. Mesha, the King of Moab, built a reservoir at Beth-baal-me’On (II Kings 3). On the Moabite or Mesha Stone (discovered in 1868 at Dibon) it is recorded that King Mesha “reigned in peace over the hundred towns which he had added to the land. And he built Medeba and Beth-diblathen and Beth-baal-me”On, and he set there the … of the land.” The stone is defaced at this point so we do not know what the King set up, but it was likely an image of his god, Ashtar-Chemosh.
The Moabites welcomed Egyptian protection provided by a chain of border fortresses that enabled Egypt to control the Sinai. One of these forts was at Ir-Moab, on the Arnon River. During Joseph’s era Egypt traded with Damascus, moving goods through Moab.
The Moabites were to be excluded from the assembly of worshipers, because: “They did not come to meet you with food and drink when you were on your way out of Egypt, and even hired Balaam, son of Beor, to oppose you by cursing you.” (Deuteronomy 23:3-5) The Israelites were allowed to harass Moab, but were forbidden to wage war on them, so they defeated Midian as a result of the advice that Balaam gave that led to a plague in punishment for the worship of idols at Baal Peor. Only the men of Moab and Ammon were forbidden to marry into the Israelite nation, but the women were permitted to convert without restriction. That is why King David who descended from Ruth could be king and the mother of his grandson Rehoboam son of Solomon was from Ammon. This issue was covered in the Talmud and attributed to Doeg the Edomite.
[edit] Biblical narrative (through the conquest by Israel)

According to Genesis 19:30-38, Moab was the son of Abraham's nephew Lot by his elder daughter, while Ammon was Moab's half-brother by a similar union of Lot with his younger daughter after the destruction of Sodom. The close ethnological affinity of Moab and Ammon which is thus attested[9] is confirmed by their subsequent history, while their kinship with the Israelites is equally certain, and is borne out by the linguistic evidence of the Moabite Stone. They are also mentioned in close connection with the Amalekites,[10] the inhabitants of Mount Seir (the descendants of Esau),[11] the Edomites,[12] the Canaanites,[13] the Sethites[14] and the Philistines.[15] The story of Moab's incestuous conception may be intended to relegate the Moabites to a lesser status than that of the Israelites. Although, given that Abraham's nephew Lot was the founding father of the Moabites and was spared in Sodom for upholding righteous virtues, the Moabites were clearly derived from similar stock of pious principles as the Israelites.
The Moabites first inhabited the rich highlands at the eastern side of the chasm of the Dead Sea, extending as far north as the mountain of Gilead, from which country they expelled the Emim, the original inhabitants,[16] but they themselves were afterward driven southward by warlike tribes of Amorites, who had crossed the river Jordan. These Amorites, described in the Bible as being ruled by King Sihon, confined the Moabites to the country south of the river Arnon, which formed their northern boundary.[17]
The Israelites, in entering the "promised land", did not pass through the Moabites, (Judges 11:18) but conquered Sihon's kingdom and his capital at Heshbon. After the conquest of Canaan the relations of Moab with Israel were of a mixed character, sometimes warlike and sometimes peaceable. With the tribe of Benjamin they had at least one severe struggle, in union with their kindred the Ammonites and the Amalekites.[18] The Benjaminite shofet Ehud ben Gera assassinated the Moabite king Eglon and led an Israelite army against the Moabites at a ford of the Jordan river, killing many of them.
The story of Ruth, on the other hand, testifies to the existence of a friendly intercourse between Moab and Bethlehem, one of the towns of the tribe of Judah. By his descent from Ruth, David may be said to have had Moabite blood in his veins. He committed his parents to the protection of the king of Moab (who may have been his kinsman), when hard pressed by King Saul. (1 Samuel 22:3,4) But here all friendly relations stop forever. The next time the name is mentioned is in the account of David's war, who made the Moabites tributary.[19] Moab may have been under the rule of an Israelite governor during this period; among the exiles who returned to Judea from Babylonia were a clan descended from Pahath-Moab, whose name means "ruler of Moab".
After the destruction of the First Temple, the knowledge of which people belonged to which nation was lost and the Moabites were treated the same as other gentiles. As a result, all members of the nations could convert to Judaism without restriction. The problem in Ezra and Nehemiah occurred because Jewish men married women from the various nations without their first converting to Judaism.
[edit] Reassertion of independence


Map of the southern Levant, c.830s BC. Kingdom of Judah
Kingdom of Israel
Philistine city-states
Phoenician states
Kingdom of Ammon
Kingdom of Edom
Kingdom of Aram-Damascus
Aramean tribes
Assyrian Empire
Kingdom of Moab
Arubu tribes
Nabatu tribes



At the disruption of the kingdom under the reign of Rehoboam, Moab seems to have been absorbed into the northern realm. It continued in vassaldom to the Kingdom of Israel until the death of Ahab, when the Moabites refused to pay tribute and asserted their independence, making war upon the kingdom of Judah.[20]
After the death of Ahab the Moabites under Mesha rebelled against Jehoram, who allied himself with Jehoshaphat, King of Kingdom of Judah, and with the King of Edom. According to the Bible, the prophet Elisha directed the Israelites to dig a series of ditches between themselves and the enemy, and during the night these channels were miraculously filled with water which was as red as blood. Deceived by the crimson color into the belief that their opponents had attacked one another, the Moabites became overconfident and were entrapped and utterly defeated at Ziz, near En Gedi,[21] which states that the Moabites and their allies, the Ammonites and the inhabitants of Mount Seir, mistook one another for the enemy, and so destroyed one another). According to Mesha's inscription on the Mesha Stele, however, he was completely victorious and regained all the territory of which Israel had deprived him. The battle of Ziz is the last important date in the history of the Moabites as recorded in the Bible. In the year of Elisha's death they invaded Israel.[22] and later aided Nebuchadnezzar in his expedition against Jehoiakim.[23]
Although allusions to Moab are frequent in the prophetical books[24] and although two chapters of Isaiah (xv.-xvi.)