Quote:
Originally Posted by OBW
And I will pick a little on this "all" reading one more time before I leave. While there is no mystery who wrote this, I am not attacking or belittling. I am trying to point to what seems to me to be straightforward reading.
What is missing is that v 29 says "Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said." Then comes the portion quoted above.
But does verse 31 really leave the door open for all to participate? Do we intend to presume that a "prophet" and "prophesying" are general things? Do we not consider that if Paul meant for all, then he wouldn't have used a term that only 2 chapters earlier he has defined as applying to only some.
Chapter 12:29-30 "Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?"
Have we not understood the answer to each of these questions to be "no"? Why then do we come to the portion of the letter in which Paul is toning-down their meetings and assume that on this one thing 12:29 really should have been answered "yes"?
Paul is busy telling them to limit the tongues-speaking. He starts the section with "when you come together, each of you has. . . ." Then he follows that with restrictions. Only two or three speak in tongues and only if there is an interpreter. 2 or 3 should prophesy. The spirits of prophets are subject to the prophet. Women should keep silence (not saying we should necessarily follow this now). Do it in order. Be orderly.
And our conclusion is that "prophet" suddenly is everyone. If you are not a prophet, you cannot prophesy. And if everyone does not have the gift of prophecy, then everyone cannot prophesy.
But I guess we are too taken with the freedom that was provided in the LRC for non-prophets like me to do it anyway. We want it to be true so badly. We almost seem to be taking the position that since it is "freedom" (since we are so sincere) then it just must be true. I need more than a desire for the context, grammar, etc., to be wrong. I need a reason that is there. A sound reading that arrives at the conclusion without first assuming it is true. And that is the only way I can get there — to have concluded that it is true and be trying to make it fit despite the context and grammar.
I honestly think that we need to overcome the context and structure of Paul's letter to arrive at a general declaration that all of the assembly can prophesy. And while it is not impossible that it is what he meant, there is way too much going against it to simply declare that it is so (in my opinion).
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1Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts,
but rather that ye may prophesy.
Surely the use of the word “Ye” here by Paul must refer to everyone in the church in Corinth, not to a select few gifted prophets. There is nothing to suggest that this chapter was written specifically for a gifted few.
2For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3
But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
Earlier Paul asked a rhetorical question “are all prophets” and I think we all agree the answer is no. But here he says that he that prophesieth speaks edification, exhortation and comfort. So I will ask “Can all Christians speak words of edification, exhortation and comfort” and again, I think we all will agree the answer is yes. So I completely disagree with your basic assumption that since all are not prophets then “all can prophesy” cannot refer to all believers. Instead I will repeat my example “Are all baseball players? No. Can all play baseball? Yes.”
4He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;
but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
Can Paul state his burden any more clearly? The church in Corinth was full of saints seeking spiritual gifts and they had latched onto speaking in tongues. His burden was that they would cut back on the speaking in tongues and instead focus on speaking words of edification, exhortation and comfort that could be clearly understood. He referred to this type of speaking as “prophesying”.
…12Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts,
seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.
13Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.
14For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.
15What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.
16Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?
17For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified.
18I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
Now I think this word is clearly directed at all of the saints in Corinth. Many were getting up and speaking in tongues and Paul is saying he would rather they spoke five words with their understanding. That does not mean this is the only way or the best way to have a meeting, but it certainly means that one option is that any and all brothers could speak in a meeting, if only for a very short period of time.
20Brethren, be not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children, but in understanding be men.
21In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
24But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all:
I cannot possibly see any basis to say that when Paul says “if all prophesy” he is limiting this to two or three gifted prophets. This is not the context.
25And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.
26How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.
“Every one hath” to me clearly means every single member that is in the meeting. This is clearly a continuation of what Paul has been sharing concerning prophesying. So, to have a teaching or a psalm, or a tongue, or a revelation, these are all words of edification, hence his conclusion “let all things be done unto edifying. Also, I think it is reasonable to equate words of edification as “prophesying”.
27If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.
28But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
29Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.
Now this is the verse which you have hung your hat on. I think it is fair to say that “prophets” here may refer to gifted members. By limiting them to two or the most three Paul is trying, in my understanding, to prevent them from completely dominating the meeting. So for example, you may have a meeting with two or three gifted speakers, elders, preachers, etc. But they should be limited to two or at the most three. However, whenever you come together “each one has” would be pointless if you are not allowed to share. So, you might not be a gifted “prophet” yet you still have some experience of Christ that you can share.
30If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
To me this means that the meetings should not be so formal that you only have one speaker and a whole lot of spectators. Everyone and anyone in the meeting might receive an instant speaking of the Lord and they should be allowed to share it.
31For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.
Verse 29 uses the word “prophets”, the noun form of the word, and verse 31 uses the verb form. Again, I have heard that the “all” must refer to 2 or 3 because of verse 29 but I am completely unconvinced. I believe that this “all” is a direct reference to verse 30, not verse 31, as evidenced by the word “for” explaining verse 30. If you have a meeting and a gifted speaker, say John Ingalls is giving a conference, and the Lord suddenly reveals something to some small brother, that brother should be able to stand up and speak and JI should hold his peace. The reason for this is that “you all can prophesy”. Yes JI is “a prophet”, but the Lord can speak through any member of the Body.
…39Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40Let all things be done decently and in order.