[ZNPaaneah]

Originally Posted by NeitherFirstnorLast

2) We believed that since Lee had all the answers, we didn't need to read our Bibles for ourselves. We could look to the footnotes and get the answers. We believed that if we discerned something different in the Scriptures from what Lee found, we must be wrong. We quenched the Spirit! Is it any wonder that it can take years to recover from where we were? Sin has consequences, and in quenching the Spirit we sinned deliberately against our God - forsaking Him and His leading for Lee and his. Again: We quenched the Spirit.

I take issue with the use of the term we in the previous paragraph. It is definitely not true. It may be your experience but not mine. When I came into the LRC they didn't have a RcV. All you had, at most, was the translation for the last book that was done during the life study training and the footnotes. Everyone came to meetings with non LSM Bibles and there was very little use of footnotes. I watched as EM and RG promoted the footnotes, sold the footnotes and developed the teachings concerning using them in the meetings. But, his approach "did not work for me" so I ignored him. I never had the experience of looking at the footnotes and finding answers, though I certainly heard others share that testimony, I didn't know what they were talking about and left it at that. I did not believe that WL had all the answers, my only burden when I came to the LRC was to learn how to read the Bible. I did hear others speak that way, but there were certainly many that didn't feel that way, at least in my experience. Nor did I feel I was wrong if I saw something that WL didn't. There are many examples and if you want I will share some. I once put together a 20 page report on the precious stones in the NJ, in the report I differed with WL interpretation on Jasper. As a result he decided the entire study was not worth using. However, I stood by my decision and didn't change. Also, WL taught that based on the NT verses the dimensions of the NJ would be a Cube and therefore it is not a practical design of a city. I felt he was wrong, that the NT description describes a hemisphere, and enclosing a city within a dome would match the description, something Buckminster Fuller recommended doing. I also published that as well.

3) Lee taught us to pray loudly in his way, not Christ's way. We believed this was the only way to pray. Arrogance! Christ Himself told us exactly how to pray - in secret, so that the Father who hears in secret will reward you - but we made a show of it, praying loud and proud so the other saints could be impressed with how much like Lee we were becoming! We sought approval of men, and not of God.

Again, I take issue with the use of the term "we" and "us". First of all, Ray Graver did a pretty good study of the teaching of pray reading, he provided quotes from quite a few highly respected Christians including Martin Luther and George Muller, and Hudson Taylor. He quoted quite a few Bible verses as well. He published this as a small booklet on pray reading. The point was that this concept of praying the Bible is not new, or unique to WL but has been practiced for thousands of years. 2nd, I was never taught that this is the only way to pray. 3rd, if you are going to have a prayer meeting, or pray during a meeting it is rather impractical to do the praying in secret. Jesus also taught "my house is a house of prayer". By that did He mean that the temple was filled with tiny closets that hundreds of Israelites could hide in and pray? That is absurd. Paul talked about when you pray in a meeting. If you don't like pray reading, fine. But, I was never taught it is the only way to pray, nor is it unscriptural, at least the way I practiced it (I cannot speak for everyone).

4) Lee taught us to sit and stand in prayer, but never to kneel... even though one day, every knee will bough. (Romans 14:11 excerpt). How many times did I stand in that meeting Hall, convicted to kneel, but to proud to do so because everyone else in the Hall would have been scandalized? What a fool I was! Forgive me Lord! We forgot that fear of the Lord is the beginning of Wisdom (psalm 9:10 & 111:10)... we lost all fear of Him.

I have no idea what you are talking about when you say that anyone would be scandalized by someone kneeling while praying. The idea is totally absurd to me and has no basis in my personal experience.

5) Lee taught us to despise the cross, it was far too low a gospel. The cross was merely part of a process to make us into Godmen - and nothing more. My daughter was reprimanded for wearing a cross to church - a cross with which she preached that 'low' gospel to her friends at the age of nine... a cross she had asked for, and was proud to wear.
"The message of the cross is foolish to those who are headed for destruction[/color]! But we who are being saved know it is the very power of God." 1 Corinthians 1:18
Again: We despised the cross.

No, I have many experiences of the cross from my days in the LRC. That was where I learned of the cross. Now no doubt the LRC was highly averse to any "idols" and WL did teach that a cross as a pendant was an idol. You can not equate that with despising the cross anymore than someone having a problem with a painting of "Jesus" can not be equated with despising Jesus.

......So let's summarize:

LSM made us proud, unloving, bigoted Christians who thought we had it all. We spent our money and our time building a financial giant to churn out more propaganda, and did not learn to go out and preach the gospel. If we did reach out to others, it was to gain them for 'The Recovery' and further divide the Body of Christ. By this we lost our testimony. We quenched the Spirit and began to believe we needed Lee to tell us what to think and believe.

What did we REALLY gain?

In Christ,

NeitherFirstnorLast

If you would share your testimony as "Yours" then I would have no issue in receiving it. But if you continue to attempt to share your testimony as my testimony I will correct you.

As to the summary --

1. LSM had a limited influence on my life. I speak this as one that served in the LSM printing materials for about 3 years, who spent 18 months building the Irving hall, which was an LSM project, and who spent years in the FTTT. Despite all of that I would still put LSM influence on my LRC experience at less than 10%. I don't disagree that you can look at WL's writings and find quotes that are clearly proud, bigoted, and unloving. Did that make us that way? Once again I could easily point to saints as evidence that you are right and likewise I could point to saints that were evidence you were wrong. The biggest balance for me to this influence was the gospel outreach I was involved in from my first day in the LRC. I may be an exception to the rule thanks to David C, but my experience in Houston was to preach the gospel daily. I find that is a very humbling experience, a great antidote to the proud, bigoted, and unloving influence. Also I do not agree with your characterization of my gospel preaching at all. That said, you may be accurately describing a lot of gospel work in the LRC today, but again, your experience is not mine.