Quote:
Originally Posted by Igzy
Shawn,
I never said we should do away with elders. Neither did I say there is no one city-church.
What I said was that the model of city-churches set up by the LC where one eldership claims to be kings-of-the-hill over the whole city is indefensible.
Let me take on this point of yours:
But to discard a God provided position just because it may cause problems in all coming to agreement means that we do not give the Spirit the ability to confirm His choice in the hearts of the believers in that community. Its kind of like not praying for miracles so that we don't have to be disappointed if they do not happen.
Again, you are simply saying we should "try." The problem comes in when "trying" includes condemning other persons or groups because they do not see what you claim to see about who the elders are. This what the LC has always done. Please tell me what makes you so clear that you have the boldness to do this?
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Hi Igzy,
It seems the hardest thing for Christians to do listen to others, this is a big problem for me also; thanks for your patience!
The two points I think I heard are: condemning and imposing, I'll try to address the two.
Trying can lead to condemning, but is not always the case. If condemning is the fruit, the LSM model would appear to be the form, which leads to exclusivity. But
trying can also led to acceptance and, dare I say, oneness, when the fellowship is led by the Spirit.
Concerning the imposing of an elder, I would say that regardless of the size of the city, the groups within each city will know whom the Lord has placed over them, then based on the qualifications of Timothy and Titus, the mature ones can be appointed. I would also mention my mistake of using elders in the singular, for there seems to be a number of elders appointed in the NT churches. This plurality allows fellowship among a group that ensures that the authority will not be placed squarely on the shoulders of one.
The model I am considering is not the LSM manual, but the bible and the normal progression of the growth of a church in a city. As it grows, leadership will become more important and the eldership will be established according to the need.
Concerning the who's right posturing that will be manifest in cities that are represented by many different groups, I will not have the boldness to say anything; but I have had many fellowships with many individual believers from many backgrounds, where the differences lost their priority as we grew to know each other and pursue righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
If it can happen individually I believe, in time, it can happen locally.
Shawn