[Thankful Jane]

Originally Posted by Thankful Jane

You are addressing me with a lot of assumptions.

Originally Posted by ZNPaaneah

I have no idea what you are referring to. Please clarify with a lot of examples.

The way you write often sounds like you are responding things that have not been said or established, as if they had been (assumptions). Here are some examples, some of which I think I have already written about, but since you asked me to give a lot of examples, they follow:

1. ZNP in post #25: “…you are trying to figure this out thinking with the mindset of a “dove” (a born again Christian), as a result you are mangling NT verses to attempt to justify this behavior. My point was if that does not work, try something new…”

Here you assumed I was trying to figure something out. You assumed I had what you called the “mindset of a ‘dove.’” You assumed that I was trying to justify this behavior (behavior you had assumed that I had).

2. ZNP (#25): “My point was you are trying to understand, explain, justify, etc. these false teachings. Take a step back, look where they originated from and you can dismiss them altogether out of hand.”

Here you assumed that I was trying to understand, explain, justify, etc. these false teachings, when I had not done this.

3. ZNP (#25): Wow you really missed my point!

You assumed I had missed your point and proceeded to write as if I had. The fact was that I had told you, “At this point, I think the simplest thing for me to do is just respond to what you wrote about sisters (at least what I think I understood you to be saying ).” I further explained this to you in the next post I wrote when I said, “You write as if I am trying to figure out the behavior of elders and Lee in my post. I did nothing of the kind. You were the one that talked about them, and I did not respond to that part of your post. My response was restricted to one thing-sisters being in communication with the elders--as I explained.”

4. ZNP (#25): So, before you tell me how you were a submissive sister, explain to me why you were?

You assumed that I was going to tell you (or that I had already told you?) how I was a submissive sister. Based on your assumption you asked me to explain why I was. I had not said anything about my being a submissive sister. I told you some facts of what happened in Anaheim and Houston, but I did not make any claim about what kind of a sister I was. You assumed I would claim that I was rightly submissive based on the facts I described, but you don’t know what I would claim about this.

The order of submission is to your husband under the condition that he in turn is submitting to the Lord Jesus. How did the “elders” short circuit that? This reminds me of the Book of Galatians where Paul marvels that the Galatians are so willing to submit themselves to the judaizers.

Your question about how the elders short circuited my submission to my husband contains an assumption that I did not submit to my husband.

5. ZNP (#25) : I was asking you to stop thinking like a dove (a born again Christian) and think like a serpent (to “be wise as a serpent").

You assumed I was “thinking like a dove” and told me to stop. You don’t know how I was thinking.

6. ZNP (#25): The only reasonable explanation for what happened to you and Max’s wife is that WL was going into damage control to protect his kingdom from being exposed in the light. WL had the mindset of a serpent.

You assume this is the only reasonable explanation. This may be a reasonable explanation, but it is not the only one.

7. ZNP (#25): Max’s wife was flabbergasted because she was thinking of the mindset of a dove and considered WL to also be a dove.

You assume that Sandee was flabbergasted because she was thinking with “the mindset of a dove.” What is your source of information for knowing how she was thinking (other than what I told you, which by the way, was very limited).

8. ZNP (#25): This accusation is preemptive. Once this goes around, then when Max is excommunicated his wife can’t say anything because it looks like she is merely talking behind the backs of the elders or trying to retaliate.

9. ZNP (#29) I was saying that for BP and others to accuse the sisters of "talking behind the back" or "outside of the headship" was a preemptive accusation. They figured that when Max was excommunicated people would talk. Therefore they wanted to take a shot at this preemptively, before Max was excommunicated, kind of like putting down poison.

Your statement that the brothers made a "preemptive accusation" against me is based on an assumption that the brothers knew Max was going to be “excommunicated” a year into the future. You have presented no evidence that the Houston brothers knew over a year ahead of time what was going to happen with Max and Sandee. (The accusation about me was made in '77. Sandee and Max left in late 1978.)

10. ZNP (#28): She argued that she and other sisters were submissive to the elders in the context of this "in the loop".

You assume that I was arguing that the sisters were submissive to the elders. If you read carefully again, you will see that my argument was not that they were submissive, but that sisters were communicating with the elders (in a communication loop). I stated at the end of my post that Sandee and the sisters would have done whatever Lee told them to do, but I added this in order to emphasize how horrible Lee's action against them was, not to support some kind of argument that the sisters were "submissive" to the elders.

I will cut you slack on this one, because I can see how you could deduce from what I wrote that the sisters were submissive; however, in your statement, "she argued that she and the other sisters were submissive to the elders ..." you misrepresented what I wrote and used that misrepresentation in your argument in post #28.

Please know that I am not trying to make a new issue over all the above things; rather, I am responding to your request for me to give you a lot of examples of your assumptions.


Of course, we all make assumptions, and often do so without realizing it. In our quest to learn to communicate well, my husband and I have been tackling each others' assumptions for 44 years. That's how we've become such good friends . So, please take my calling out the fact that you were making a lot of assumptions as something necessary in order to effect good communication.

Thankful Jane