Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry
"We brothers listened to many testimonies and admissions before making any judgment."
At what point was Jane's testimony and admission listened to by the brothers? In reading The Thread of Gold, the event comes across as blindsiding accusations levied against her. Is that your recollection?
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Terry, as I wrote in post #48 to Ohio, “I recommend that you re-revisit
The Thread of Gold for the answer to your question about what led up to the 1977 ‘fellowship’ room experience by reading pages 151–189.” There is a PDF link to the book on the home page of
www.TheThreadOfGold.com. The whole experience was far too complex to encapsulate in a sentence or two. You may re-read about the events that preceded it and decide for yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry
John, my final comment from your post is on "The web of deception that I’ve documented helps to explain why it is so difficult to understand the Living Stream Ministry and the Local Churches. They are full of deception, where up is down, and down is up. In short, the leaders in both entities cannot be trusted."
I cannot say for certain either way. I do feel there are those in entrusted leadership positions like Ray and Benson who have been deceived by the enemy. I also feel there are those like John Ingalls, Al Knoch, etc who had no idea what was transpiring in the office. I feel there are local church elders who if they had known be in "a state of shock and utter disgust" over what has happened in our local church history as respected brothers were looking the other way.
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First of all, thank you for your comment. Let me provide some explanation and, then, amend the portion for you.
You wrote that some in leadership have been “deceived by the enemy.” I would say that probably all of those in leadership have been. That is why I pray for them and still hope that they will turn from their ways.
Then, you mentioned John and Al as being examples of those who had
no idea of what was going on in the Living Stream Ministry office. Terry, what I wrote is about those who are
in the entities, that is, those who are
in them now. If you think that there are some in them now who have no idea what is going on, I can agree with you. That is the nature of the beast, as I stated in a previous post. The people in the system, including those in leadership, have differing degrees of knowledge about what is going on.
As to John and Al, they got out a long time ago, after the 1987 exposure of Philip Lee, so my statement in my previous post does not apply to them. However, I would not go quite as far as you did to state that they had
no idea of what was going on. In John Ingall’s own book on the subject, he recounts how they knew of a similar sexual sin committed by Philip Lee ten years before, not to mention that the Local Church there was having problems with how Philip was running the Ministry Office. This does
not mean that I am indicting John or Al with some sin, however. I still respect them and would trust them, and others like them.
For those leaders who are out, if you want to know, I do have varying levels of trust. There are some who are out who have basically the same Local Church elder attitudes, seem to think that they know it all, and want to teach the rest of us how we should be (still have on an elder hat). I usually just try to stear clear of them. There are others who are very humble and want to fit in as just “regular” brothers. (In addition, they will even fellowship with sisters on an equal footing.) With them, I can have mutual fellowship and, hopefully, mutual benefit.
Also, you may have misunderstood the following portion: “… it is so difficult to understand the Living Stream Ministry and the Local Churches. They are full of deception ….” The “They” refers not to the people but to the two entities. So, the sentence actually says that it is the two entities that are full of deception, not the leaders per se. Then, I concluded that, because the entities are full of deception, the leaders cannot be trusted.
I hope that my explanation has made my meaning more clear to you. Again, thank you for your comment. While considering your response, I decided that it might be better if I personalized the paragraph under review, so I have rewritten the final section as follows:
The stand
The web of deception that I’ve documented helps to explain why it is so difficult to understand the Living Stream Ministry and the Local Churches. While seeking to understand, I find myself in a land where up is down, and down is up. Because of what I’ve found, I can no longer trust the leaders in either entity.
It is very important that we stick with our Christian virtues and, even, enhance them, as Peter says, lest we fall into the same vices. To faith, we are to add virtue, or excellence, not lying and playing politics, especially with others’ lives and their freedom to follow the Lord. Jesus is our Lord and Master; and, it is before Him that we stand or fall.