Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay
I've experienced this. They constantly say there's no position or hierarchy in the church, but like you said when a "high up" level coworker comes to your locality and speaks the entire atmosphere changes and they look at this speaking or "blending" brother with a air of reverence. It's bizarre. I've seen this happen many times and I've been caught up in it myself too. I remember once when Ed Marks stopped by our locality to do a speaking I was in awe of him. I did feel like he had a lot of Christ, but at the same time I caught myself kind of revering him like you would a celebrity and looking back that was strange that I and others had that type of behavior and atmosphere. He was treated like a king
Another time there was a brothers meeting and an elder in a locality was absolutely bashing another brother who had visited their locality (he wasn't a coworker or speaking brother, he was just visiting because he was considering moving there). This brother was recently divorced and the elder was just full of venom against this guy. And I knew this guy personally and the divorce was extremely hard on him. So not only was it not fair how the elder was talking about this guy, but the whole atmosphere was just so fleshly and like a klan rally almost. It was super bizarre. What the brothers do and talk about behind closed doors or in their little elder meetings and important brother meetings is very different from how they present themselves to the general church body
Once more I remember listening to a recording of Brother Lee speaking in a elders and coworker meeting and I'd never heard him so much in his flesh than on that tape. We all have our flesh and can get fleshly if we're not careful, but the way he was talking was like that's how they always do it. I remember he was bashing the American culture and character and uplifting the Chinese character in this tape. He was all like "The American character is too too poor, but the Chinese are so superior and they are fine and detailed and deep and etc." and was just so full of pride it was wild
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Jay,
I’ve been reading your posts for the past few days and I’m not sure if you realize it, but you’ve painted quite a picture. Taking your 30+ posts together, you have described the local churches like this:
1. preaches a “minister of the age” doctrine which isn’t backed up by the Bible
2. covers and protects sexual perpetrators/criminals and destroys the reputation of those who speak up
3. leaders who laugh when turning away those in need (homeless member of the church)
4. members who praise God and call on the Lord joyfully while ignoring the homeless brother
5. leaders who refuse to help a disabled/needy member when the headquarters have bountiful millions of dollars at their disposal
6. double-speak that there is no hierarchy when there definitely is
7. leaders venomously bashing a depressed divorced man
8. the top leader fleshly bashing the character of people based on country of origin
9. top leader potentially plagiarized others’ works giving general credit but not specific
10. delegated authority teaching being problematic
11. speaking against clergy-laity while having what is in practice elders who are like a special class of people
12. judgmental of genuine believers in denominations while hypocritically ignoring own behavior/son
13. top leader being a poor example in “dissing the denominations”
14. prevailing belief that those in recovery are more special than other believers
15. cult-like homogenous thinking, mantras and maxims that are not really biblical in nature
16. being cult-like in telling people they will die by the hand of God if they leave, and that leaving is rebellion
17. members being told not to go online to read about ‘storms’ so they never get the real details
18. appointing unworthy sons to high positions who misused those positions to abuse others
19. top leaders getting away with protecting immorality because they are revered to almost a deity status, ruining lives
20. False application of the story of Noah and his sons in order to protect criminal behavior and sexual predation
21. top leader misusing his position, and those under him being complicit
22. revere of top leader as if he is a king
23. doctrine being used as a scapegoat for things, to brainwash people into being automatons and live robotic lives
24. treating poor people without love
25. top leader taking money from members and his subordinates hiding his involvement in it, no apology ever issued, no admission to this day
26. top leader gaslighting, leadership above criticism when it does something wrong
27. leadership lying to the members saying they are trying to protect them from dissent and rebellion when they are really trying to cover up serious allegations
All of this is what you described or concluded. What a pit of garbage the local churches are!
Yes, I know the common response is “the churches in the Bible are filled with problems” or “no church is perfect”, but let’s stop and think for a minute. Those who behaved this way in the Bible were called out, rebuked, and driven out if they did not genuinely repent and change. But in the local church, this is the behavior that is continually propagated, and those who rebuke it are the ones who have to leave the cesspool in order to take care of their conscience!
The local church is not the church. The local church is what the genuine church has to depart from!
The problem comes from the top, dead and decayed Witness Lee, and gets replicated down to the co-workers and then to the local elders who obey the ministry, on down. It is what has marked and characterized the local churches for what…..75 years? The entire system has been called out and warned and admonished and rebuked over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, and yet those who should be driven out continue to remain in control and in darkness.
God does not remain in a place like that. Yes, God can save anyone, and yes God continues to love everyone and desires that no man perish. But when a situation of sewage like this continues on unabated, and where sin and lies and evil and falsehoods are continuously DEFENDED, God gives people up to their own desires to slip around in their own filth and vomit. I’m thrilled that you are willing to be honest in describing so many of the problems in the local church. But consider all those problems and arrive at the right conclusion about them! Please rethink your stance that the local churches are somehow definitely what God is doing on the earth today. They are some of the furthest things from it.
I’m being strong in my tone because behind all these 27 points I see the suffering of all the real human beings who have been destroyed by those who stand on stage as “God’s delegated representatives” in the Lord’s recovery, who are not God’s deputy authority at all, but are really just sons of their father, the devil.
You have mentioned a few times that the doctrines are biblically sound and essentially impenetrable. Have you come across any of the videos on the youtube channel “The Lord’s Recovery Unchained”? There are videos on God’s economy, the ground of oneness, and numerous others in which Lee’s teachings are tested against the Word, and Lee comes out short over and over. I think I listened to them on 1.5 speed because some are a bit slow, but if you are willing to hear some disagreement with the doctrines while looking at the Bible, I would recommend them.
Trapped