[Sons to Glory!]

Originally Posted by SpeakersCorner

My wife and I disagree on this topic of Hell. She contends there has to be more than just disappearance at death. I call it "The Hitler Conundrum." How fair would it be for Hitler to share the same fate as that wonderful old man down the street who served his country, his community, his family, etc. but failed to find Christ in this life?

I know, I know, the "Hell-inistas" here are already screaming, "Stop applying your sense of fairness to the whole situation. READ THE BIBLE!" (You guys remind me of Job's "friends," tbh. But that's a topic for another day.)

So we were out walking the other night and discussing such deep and weighty matters and I solved the whole thing! It was amazing. I'm surprised no one in church history has solved it before. Anyway, here's the solution to the puzzle: Abraham, Lazarus, and the Rich Man. Let's begin:

Pretty stark difference in outcomes already. Lazarus gets an angel uber ride to a pleasant place, the rich man is shoveled into Sheol (the grave). It gets more interesting. The rich man can talk across the chasm that divides the two. Lazarus is sleeping. The rich man then cries out, "Help me, Father Abraham, I'm in torment. Get Lazaurs to dip his finger in water and cool my tongue!"

So here in wherever the rich man is (Sheol? Gehenna? Hades? Hell?), it's curious that 1) he wants water to cool his tongue, 2) he still think he can snap his fingers and Lazarus will have to respond, 3) he's in a "place" he says (I'm skeptical) he wants to warn his brothers about, and 4) he is tormented in "this flame." It's a great story and it has some true justice in it. Watchman Nee said, because real names are used for the characters, it's not an allegory. It's literal. Could be but there are elements that aren't very literal -- like water to cool the tongue of a dead man. At any rate, what we see is not the Lake of Fire because that hasn't even showed up yet in scripture. We see a pre-Hell of some sort. And it's a place of suffering for those who deserve it based on this life.

Lazarus is resting comfortably, awaiting the midnight hour up above when the bridegroom cometh. The rich man is spending a long, horrible, sleepless night of the soul. And Hitler, I'm happy to report, has been suffering in this place for 80 years or so.

There you have it. You're welcome.

Ya know, I appreciated this - thanks for posting! In reading various and considering the disposition of souls after physical death a bit, this seems to sum things up best for me - whatever "hell" is, it won't be good and is to be avoided at all costs! This instance of Lazarus and the rich man is a good example of that. I often tend to pick apart scriptural stories like this trying and find some "deeper meaning." But right on the surface is perhaps the main thing - there will be just retribution and it won't be pleasant at all!

And after reading the book I mentioned before on the subject (dare I say a seminal work by Steve Gregg?), I also have a much more nuanced view of hell than the commonly held traditional view of eternal, conscious torment idea I held before. So there are passages about souls perishing that seem to suggest total annihilation, and other places where it seems there is some additional chance given, and of course places where the lake of fire is given as a final destiny. So which of these views is correct? I suspect all three may be to some degree . . . in any case I know the scriptures are true - it's just our understanding that is short of clarity.

And I do know that no one will be able to point a finger at God and accuse Him of handling souls unrighteously. So is it annihilation or universalism or eternal torment or a compination of these? Hard to say for sure, but this I know, He loves us and HE'S GOT THIS!

(BTW - I'm coming to think that total universalism is definitely taking things too far, as there are clearly at least some who wind-up in the lake of fire. And if annhilation is the final solution for some souls, what did the ones who deserve eternal torment do to receive that instead of being annhilated? This is way above my pay grade I think . . .)